Using vArranger without any physical sound module

[marranger]

Is it possible to use vArranger without any physical sound module?
If so, what would be the results?

The reason I'm asking is that I need a very-basic arranger software in order to inspire me in music creation but can't afford much.

Thanks

[Dan]

Yes you can !

vArranger now has a virtual module included that is evolutive with soundfonts and VSTi support

[marranger]

Thanks Dan

Is it possible to be accompanied (chord wise) this way?
I would have thought that styles are needed for this purpose.

Thanks

[Dan]

I don't understand your question, but with vArranger you can load and play styles in realtime even without any module.

Do you have a midi keyboard to play the chords and melody?

If not, you can also enter the chords in the screen with the mouse.

Dan

[Deane]

Dan,
How does that work?   I thought you had to use the SD2 unit to get the sounds from vArranger.
Can you explain the process?

Thanks,
Deane

[Dan]

Deane, I just sent you the latest version to test.
On the MIDI OUT 1/2/3 lists you can now select the vArranger Software Synthesizer, or the VST out.

For the Audio, select a WASAPI or ASIO out for low latency

The internal synth is using a basic sound set that can be improved with SoundFonts samples.

For VST instruments, you need to find some free or commercial VSTi. There is tons of existing virtual instruments.

[Deane]

Thank you Dan,
Deane

[WallyH]

Hi Dan,
How is the sound quality compared to using SD2? Are they the same, better or not as good?
Thank you,
Wally

[Dan]

The SD2 has an advantage of sounding very good out of the box.

The virtual instruments can give you a better sound than SD2 but at a price of work for finding and selecting good soundfonts, vst instruments, etc...

You can also use the SD2 + some virtual instruments....

Someone is recording his Ketron SD2 note by note, to create a SoundFont for vArranger. 

Maybe he will share his work with other vArranger users.

[Deane]

Dan,
Can you provide  a more detailed "How To" for connecting everything together without using the SD2 Unit?   

Right now I have my PC Laptop connected to my Roland A-Pro 800 controller and have headsets connected to my PC Laptop.  When I start a style playing all I get is some very weird background noise.  What styles should I select to give it a try?   

Thanks,
Deane

[Dan]

In the MIDI PORTS screen, close to the MIDI OUT1, you have to select GM2 MODE in the list.

Don't forget to put back KETRON SD2 when you will use it again later.

Try to use Yamaha or Roland sytles.  Not Ketron for now

[Deane]

Hi Dan,
it works really great!   I have been playing Tyros 4 styles.  One more question.
What is the correct procedure for installing your new updates without destroying
the control setup such as variation change.

Deane

[pax_eterna]

The SD2 has an advantage of sounding very good out of the box.

The virtual instruments can give you a better sound than SD2 but at a price of work for finding and selecting good soundfonts, vst instruments, etc...

You can also use the SD2 + some virtual instruments....

Someone is recording his Ketron SD2 note by note, to create a SoundFont for vArranger. 

Maybe he will share his work with other vArranger users.

I already have that Dan, have had for some years - in fact I think I sent it to you?

[Dan]

If you place the new program, close to the old program, you will use the same data.

If you want to experiment and not modify anything to your current gig set, simply duplicate the vArrangerData folder into another folder, and put the new program close to this copy.

This way, you will have 2 separate setup...

[Dan]

Yes Dennis, you also have the SD2 sampled, but your take is using 8GB of samples !
There is another SD2 sample set from Live styler who is working too. (less good quaility)
The new user want to sample everything again for his own need, and will maybe share it with all the vArranger users.

[KOOY]

it is totaly overdone to sample a SD 2 note for note because thats not what Ketron has done themselves. So you will not receive more quality. Bear in mind that a SD2 is just a simple basic soundmodule with tiny samples in it.

[pax_eterna]

Yes Dennis, you also have the SD2 sampled, but your take is using 8GB of samples !
There is another SD2 sample set from Live styler who is working too. (less good quaility)
The new user want to sample everything again for his own need, and will maybe share it with all the vArranger users.

Okly dokly - I understand where you are coming from now. my set IS rather high quality hence the size   and is more designed for streaming rather than for loading in toto into ram. It works well with an app called Jeskola-XS being driven by vA.

D

[sanderxpander]

Does this mean one could get out-of-the-box compatibility with vArranger's "SD2" mode and all the styles?

[trans17a]

I am an owner of SD2 sample set from Live styler and my question is if it is really tested and is working with varranger 's synth module.
I am asking that because i test these soundfonts with every sountfont player and neither recognized or if recognized ( like in kontakt5 ) they sounds very noizy and crappy!!
In LiveStyler15 "SD2 sample set" sounds right without noize. I think they are encoded. If I can use them (SD2 sample set from Live styler) with varranger i will consider seriusly of  buying varranger2.

[Lylo]

Hello,  I use this sounfonts every w.e. on stage and it work fine.
I just select the sounfonts for my songs and I avoid the others for have only the necessary in ram (256/300 mo) I convert the soundfonts in mono, it's less loud.
Before I use Samplelord, very good but no effects and now I use the vAsynth include in vArranger, it's very good and useful.

[Dan]

vArranger try to remap most of styles to sound good with the Ketron SD2.
I always improve the out of the box compatibility wth sound modules when it is possible.

trans17a : can you send me one SF2 file, so I can try it with vArranger. I think you can use Live Styler SF2 with vArranger.
The only thing to concider : vArranger loads all your SF2 in memory, so you need to have RAM available, and limited to 4GB

[trans17a]

Hello Lylo , I tried Live Styler SD2 sf2 with Samplelord 1.5.6 but it does not load them. From the other hand it loads and plays well all the Live styler Tyros4 sf2 , that i had bought also in the past. You use "Ketron SD2 sf2" or "Tyros sf2" ?

[trans17a]

Hello Dan, the memory is not a problem because all of them (the livestyler SD2 sf2) are 1.6gb.
I send you two of them to try. Keep in mind that if they wont load up in varranger you can try them in kontakt to hear how they are sounding like, in order to figure out the problem and if there is a solution. Thanks in advance !

[Lylo]

Hello Lylo , I tried Live Styler SD2 sf2 with Samplelord 1.5.6 but it does not load them. From the other hand it loads and plays well all the Live styler Tyros4 sf2 , that i had bought also in the past. You use "Ketron SD2 sf2" or "Tyros sf2" ?

SD2, never problem.

[Dan]

Yes. It seems that the wav inside the SF2 are encrypted.
Some persons here have the same version of this SF2 set without encryption
I also think that I can decrypt this file

[trans17a]

Oh very nice then if you can decrypt these files let me know in order to proceed  in  buying varranger2.
I also want you to explain me a little how things works with vAsynth and soundfonts.
You put them all in a specific folder you have said and varranger loads all of them in memory. And what about Msb lsb and program changes, how vAsynth figures out them?
I must  reprogram each soundfont's header or you do it with "txt" or "ini" file that i must configure? For example livestyler uses a Scriptfile called "sd2.mega" with all those definitions.
Also if you can not decrypt them but you have the same version of this SD2 sf2 set without encryption and you can send me for free with buying Varranger2 its the same for me.

[Dan]

The MSB and PC are already set well inside the Live Styler SD2 SF2 set. You don't need to change anything
You can buy now

[trans17a]

Very good so far!! I have only a few more questions.
Has vAsynth separate channels in the rithm parts for each soundfont and if yes can i put on the top of each channel at least one different vst effect ?
Can Varranger play correctly tyros 4 mega sounds through vAsynth if i support it with the right sound fonts, for example the "Live styler Tyros4 sf2" ? I ask this because i did not hear any demo with yamaha styles which make use of mega voices and specially mega guitars and mega bases. By the way live styler 15 does not play them right specially the basses, sends wrong velocities. I try them with omb and kontakt and the result was better. what about Varranger2 ?
Also korg rx voices are supported through the styles if you have the right sound fonts ? I have sampled a lot of them my self from pa2x.

[Dan]

For now, you can set for each track a reverb, a chorus and a 3rd aux fx, usually a delay.
One reverb and chorus is included with vArranger, but you can use your own VST for reverb , chorus and FX3.
For now there is no VST FX insert on every track, but I will maybe add one, especially to add some disto on right hand sound.

For now, vArranger is adapting megavoices tracks to be played with normal guitar and bass sound, and it sounds pretty good.

For now, I have muted the Korg RX noises so styles sounds OK with most GM synth

Maybe I will add some options for straight megavoices and Korg RX

[sanderxpander]

This seems to hit on my question from the other thread as well. Would you think this is a decent replacement for an SD2?

[Dan]

For the styles, it is doing the job pretty well. For right hand sounds, some are OK, some are bad. Especially piano sounds.

[trans17a]

For the first part I am ok but I am very disappointed with your other two answers about yamaha and korg !!!
An arranger with only GM support is like yamaha psr8000  ang korg i30 models 15 years ago. All the modern technology arrangers are based on velocity layering sounds like megavoices and RX sounds.  I did not even know if your ketron engine supports the wha wha and other fx in the lower and upper octaves of the guitar sf2 's.
By the way I am really sorry that i have to wait to add those options in the  future to the Varranger2 or 3.
And to be honest it was good that i asked those questions because i thought that Varranger2 supports these futures. I use them with omb and kontakt and other sf2 players seven years now, but  i want a more appealing and compact all in one solution like yours.   

[Dan]

Yes, the Ketron engine includes the guitar noises in extreme range of the sound. It's 100% like original.

For Yamaha and Korg, I have worked hard to adapt megavoices to normal voices, because most of vArranger users does not have megavoices sounds like you.

I will add a way to set a SF2 sound to be played straight with original velocities and noises later.

[trans17a]

If you add these options soon for Yamaha and Korg it will be wonderful. Is the only thing that stops me from buying Varranger2. Till then thank you for your answers and sorry for my complicated questions.

[sanderxpander]

For the styles, it is doing the job pretty well. For right hand sounds, some are OK, some are bad. Especially piano sounds.

That sounds great then, since I will be using my Kronos for my "playing hand" and that piano is a really well done 4GB monster

[Pekilik]

For now, I have muted the Korg RX noises so styles sounds OK with most GM synth

Maybe I will add some options for straight megavoices and Korg RX

I told you in the past, that You can unblock Rx noises (megavoices) as an option, that users can turn on or off this option.

[trans17a]

Hello Pekilik.
Perhaps is not so simple. Maybe Dan's arranger engine has the same problem that "Live styler" has and sends wrong velocities or something like that and does not put this option until it makes it perfect. 

[Dan]

It is easy to for me to send RX noises and MegaVoices straight without any conversions.
But you need the original Yamaha or Korg synth to replay them correctly, or perfect samples respecting the velocity switching of the mega voices, which is very hard to do.
You can send me your MV/RX samples, so I can try if it will sound good.

[Pekilik]

I think that Dan can unblock Rx and Mega Voices very easy, but he does not want, and I think that would work very good,

I have some Korg PA2x styles where Rx noises used only for Bass slide tones on 1-33 velocity switching zone, and for me is very easy that make Kontakt 5 instruments with Bass slide on 1-33 zone and 34-127 normal Bass sound, I send Dan e-mail with some questions and answers about this topic and I wait answer, for me it isn't important that factory sound and styles work good with Rx noises because I mostly work with my custom
styles and instruments, because I wrote you that You can make this unblocking like option in OPTIONS-MIDI PORTS... like XG or GM or Ketron SD2 which would only be unblocked Rx and Mega Voices, and You can hold blocking for other standards (XG,GM, etc...), it would solve problems for us who would like to have Rx noises and MV unblocked.

[Dan]

It's not that I don't want.

There is some implications that demand more reflection before I start programming this.

But for sure, I will do it.

[Pekilik]

Thanks so much...

[trans17a]

I can Send you as much as you want but tell me how, because the size is about 30gb.
For now help your self with some samples. The first two are Tyros 4 and the rest Korg Pa2x

[Pekilik]

When can we expect, new version where is Rx and MV unblocked?

[silviuturcu]

hi! how do I try soundfont in varrangersynth?
thank!

[Dan]

You just put some sf2 files in the vArrangerData\Sounds\SAMPLES\ folder, and run vArranger

[silviuturcu]

thanks for the reply !!! I copied 6 sf2 file in the SOUND folder. I opened the Varranger but I do not see the sf2. how do I play them

thank!

[Dan]

It is in the SAMPLES folder

If you use the vArranger synth for midi out, you should simply see you sounds in the normal interface (PIANO,E.PIANO, CHORM...)

There is also a button called  INS&SF2  then click on SoundFonts to see the list of installed sounds

[silviuturcu]

I tried it with a sf2 (bandoneon.sf2) but I lose Grand piano.

[Dan]

Yes, because inside this SF2 file, the sound has a Bank = 0 and Program number = 0

so it will replace the piano.

You need an SF2 editor, to change the bank and preset number to the place you want, so 2 sounds will not use the same numbers.

You can use a software like polyphone to edit the sf2 file
http://polyphone.fr/index.php?lang=en&page=home

[silviuturcu]

all clear !!! so I like it. Now all that remains is to work !!
another question. fx2 the delay does not work with sf2?

thank !!

[Dan]

fx1 is reverb
fx2 is chorus
fx3 is not provided.

You can however use your own vst plugin for fx1/2/3

So you need to add a VST delay for FX3.   

You need to add this line in the \vArrangerData\vArranger2.ini file

[Settings]
VSTDelay=C:\VST\YourDelay.dll

with the path of your vst delay

[silviuturcu]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ITS AVAILABILITY!!!

[Dan]

I know it's amazing

For the 3 Aux VST FX

[Settings]
VSTReverb=....dll
VSTChorus=....dll
VSTDelay=...dll

Everyone is welcome to share here the name of good multifx or delay vst

Enjoy !

[Pekilik]

If I understand good, that I can have VST Reverb,Chorus and Delay with sf2 sounds.... how?

where I have to write this: [Settings]
VSTReverb=....dll
VSTChorus=....dll
VSTDelay=...dll

to get it working with vAsynth or my sf2 sounds?

[Torben]

To use VST effects on the vArranger synth, you need to write in the \vArrangerData\vArranger2.ini

[Settings]
VSTReverb=C:\Program Files\Lexicon\PCM Native Reverb VST\LexRandomHall.dll
VSTDelay=C:\Users\Dan\Downloads\mfx\mfx.dll
VSTChorus=C:\Users\Dan\Downloads\mfx\mfx.dll

If you want to replace the original reverb by another vst reverb, then write the line VSTReverb= with the full path of your vst dll
The same for chorus  and fx3


To see the VST, you need to click on the lablel  FX1-REVERB   FX2   FX3, close to the master fader.


If you right clik on the labels you will see the preset of the vst


Those FX are auxiliary, so you need to set them as WET 100%   Dry 0%


to send fx3, you need to go on sound edit screen, there is a fx3 knob

Mvh. Torben

[Dan]

Well done Torben

And very soon, there will be a new release to save a startup config for the 3 VST FX