vArranger Software System

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

The following is my flr2013 Arranger Software System:

Windows 7.
Live-Styler (mostly), vArranger & OMB.
Abeleton Live includes effects (replaces forte as host).
Kontakt 5 Sampler for Main or Right Hand Sounds.

Main or Right Hand VST Sounds:
NI Kontakt 5, Bardstown, VRSound, GOP, JABB, Garritan Strings, and many others.

Auto Accompaniment Wavetables:
Halion 1.6, Bandstand, SGM 2.01, Colossus (General Midi, XG, GS, etc.)

Antares Harmony EFX (Works well with Abeleton Live but not with Brainspawn's forte.).


i7 Intell Processor
8GB RAM
M-Audio 1010LT Soundcard

I would like to change this to where I mostly use vArranger (vs Live-Styler). However, I would like to check on a few things before I invest to much time on switching over:

> I use the Roland A37 as my Midi Controller. Can I program the bottom Octave of the keyboard to change the various style parts, e.g., Start/Stop, Parts A,B,C,D, Intros/Endings, etc.  If so can you give me some idea on how to go about this.........aside from reading the manual.

> I assume with proper porting I can use Halion (or other Wavetables) as my sound source for vArranger style playing. Such wavetables would be hosted as VSTs in Ableton Live.

> Play my right hand sounds using Kontakt VST hosted in Ableton Live.

> I assume you can load a menu of styles within vArranger for easy access while playing.

> Is there a way of screen sizing vArranger for easy access to Ableton Live so that both are functional?

> I assume I can use Yamaha Styles.

> Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

If it is better to work via email rather than on the forum that is ok by me.

I currently have vArranger 2.

Thank you

Frank L. Rosenthal
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

Hi Frank

First of all, I sent you the latest version of vArranger.
Here are the answer of your questions :


> I use the Roland A37 as my Midi Controller. Can I program the bottom Octave of the keyboard to change the various style parts, e.g., Start/Stop, Parts A,B,C,D, Intros/Endings, etc.  If so can you give me some idea on how to go about this.........aside from reading the manual.

Yes, of course. Go on OPTIONS/CONTROLLERS.  Every feature can be assigned to any key. Just select the feature's line, and play your midi note.

> I assume with proper porting I can use Halion (or other Wavetables) as my sound source for vArranger style playing. Such wavetables would be hosted as VSTs in Ableton Live.

OK. Just use LoopMidi to connect the 2 apps together
http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html


> Play my right hand sounds using Kontakt VST hosted in Ableton Live.

Yes, If you can assign some midi channels in Abelton Live to play with differents VSTs.

> I assume you can load a menu of styles within vArranger for easy access while playing.

Yes. vArranger will display your styles in the MY SONGS bar. A new playlist feature will be released soon to get things even more easy

> Is there a way of screen sizing vArranger for easy access to Ableton Live so that both are functional?

Yes. You can resize the vArranger screen to the size you want (double clik on the background, and resize), then right click on background to SAVE the startup screen position.

> I assume I can use Yamaha Styles.

Yes, and Ketron, and Roland, and maybe Korg later...


> Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

Note that I will release very very soon my software synthesizer to go with vArranger. If you have a nice SF2 soundset, let me know.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, thanks for kind and quick response. I will have a go at it.

You indicated you sent me the most recent version of vArranger. Did you send it to my email address flr@mts.net?

Thank you

Frank L. Rosenthal
flr@mts.net

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, thanks for sending me the current version of vArranger.

I have a few more questions:

When you load a style into vArranger and make adjustments to effects and volumes can that be saved to the style?

On my Roland A37 I have 2 midi ports (A & B) which I split:

Port A goes to Ableton Live/Kantakt for my right hand (main) voices/sounds.

Port B goes to vArranger for both changing style parts and sending the chord changes. As noted previously the lowest octave I use to accomplish the style part changes, e.g., start/stop, intro/endings, Part A, B, etc. The next above the lowest octave I use to send chords to vArranger. Can these functions be kept separate so that when I send a part change that it does not affect the chord I am playing?

I use 2 computers (General for editing, internet and other uses & a Music computer not connected to the internet). Can I install vArranger on both or do I need to buy another license for this?

Frank
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

When you load a style into vArranger and make adjustments to effects and volumes can that be saved to the style?

You can click on SAVE / SAVE SONG, and everything is saved. However, vArranger does not save anything into the style file itself, but saves all the settings in another file.


Can these functions be kept separate so that when I send a part change that it does not affect the chord I am playing?

Of course, it does not affect the chords.

I use 2 computers (General for editing, internet and other uses & a Music computer not connected to the internet). Can I install vArranger on both or do I need to buy another license for this?

I can transfer your licence to an USB key, so you can run vArranger on any computer if you plug your USB key.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I just started installing vArranger on my music computer and got some things working. I have some further questions:

> For some reason the screen sizing is not maintained when  I close vArranger and launch it again. I did the screen save as you suggested.

>How do you go about splitting the keyboard within vArranger?

> How can I get rid of the accordion setting? All I need is the keyboard split and a straight port from the keyboard to vArranger and a virtual cable from vArranger to Abelton Live. Plus vArranger does not maintain the settings on the next launch of vArranger.

> Also other general setting (main volumes - Left = 0, etc). are not maintained upon the next launch of vArranger.

Once I get the above figured out I will be a lot closer to my goal of making it all work. The next challenge for me will be to set up a menu system for my styles.

Thank you

Frank
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

> For some reason the screen sizing is not maintained when close vArranger and launch it again. I did the screen save as you suggested.

Strange. Where did you put the vArranger2.exe icon?  maybe in a place where you can't save (c:\  or  Program files\) Try right clicking on the icon and Run as Admin.  I just tried right clicking on the vArranger background and Saving the position was ok for me.

> How can I get rid of the accordion setting? All I need is the keyboard split and a straight port from the keyboard to vArranger and a virtual cable from vArranger to Abelton Live. Plus vArranger does maintain the settings on the next launch of vArranger.

Maybe you did activate the Accordion mode to change the input midi channels.  To remove it, click on OPTION / MIDI PORTS, and unchecked MIDI ACCORDION.
Remember, your A37 should send to vArranger in channel 1.


>How do you go about splitting the keyboard within vArranger?

In the orange screen, click on the word SPLIT, and play your split note on the keyboard.
Then, click on SAVE / STARTUP CONFIG.

> Also other general setting (main volumes - Left = 0, etc. are not maintained upon the next launch of vArranger.

To mute the LEFT, click on the LEFT track and then click on OFF (top left of the sound groups PIANO, E.PIANO, GUITAR...)
The sound selected for LEFT and RIGHT should be maintained upon the next vA launch.
You can also SAVE / STARTUP CONFIG, to save more Startup things.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I got most things working ....... thanks to your help.

More on the topic of sizing vArranger and your comment below:

"Strange. Where did you put the vArranger2.exe icon?  maybe in a place where you can't save (c:\  or  Program files\) Try right clicking on the icon and Run as Admin.  I just tried right clicking on the vArranger background and Saving the position was ok for me."

Where is the best place to install vArranger C:/, Program Files (x86), etc.?

When I tried to run it as Admin. vArranger would not launch and asked me to copy the registration information to be sent to you. Plus I could not get out of this window and had to forcefully shut down Windows 7. I tried it normally a few more times using your advice of double clicking and saving the screen......it finally seem to have caught. Before I jump up and down for joy I will launch vArranger a number of times and see how it goes.

So now I will start making a menu system for the styles I normally use. Any advice you may have in this regard would again be greatly appreciated.

Once again your help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Frank
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

You can put vArranger2.exe on your Desktop, or i e in C:\vArranger\

Take the vArrangerData folder close to the exe. it contains all your configuration and your songs.

For your song menu system, click on the 'My Songs Folder...' label, in the MY SONGS line.

This will open a windows folder.

You can put here any folders like ROCK, DISCO, BALLAD.. or MYSET1....

Inside the folders, you can put any files you want.  STYLES / MIDIFILES / MP3 ....  or subfolders...

Then, click on the 'Refresh' label to update the screen.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, thank you

Frank

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I can't seem to resolve another problem. The bass in all my Yamaha styles is not sounding. The bass volume indicator is showing that the signal is getting thru....but no sound. All other sounds seem to work ok.

I again could use your help.

Frank
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

Can you post here one style, so I can try?

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, please find an attached Yamaha style as requested.

I don't have a lot of time to carefully test everything including whether the other style channels match those of vArranger. I did notice that when you double click on the bass volume strip the window shows channel 5 when it should be 11.

I also noticed that vArranger's bass Patch, MSB & LSB did not match those of the style. It should be 33, 0, 0.

Hope this helps.

Frank

[Dan]

Your style is playing perfectly good.

Just check the midi channels of each arranger tracks.  And made them matching in your VST host.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, when I use other style players that particular style I sent you plays properly on my system. So to me it must be a setting on vArranger that I did not get right. Currently the bass shows up as channel 5 and when I go and look in Ableton Live- Halion Sonic Channel 11 shows up as a Trombone. Plus there are number of channels from 1 to 8 playing which should not be.

If you can think of something let me know. I have got to run and do other things but I will be checking back as soon as I can.

Sorry to take all your time and thank you for your help.

Frank

[Dan]

Here is the vArranger MIDI channels out :
You should see the notes incoming on those channels in Halion Sonic

Drums=10
Perc=9
Bass=5
Accomp1=6
Accomp2=7
Accomp3=8
Accomp4=11
Accomp5=12
Left1=3
Left2=4
Left3=1
Right1=13
Right2=14
Right3=15
Right4=16
SecondVoice=2

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan the correct channel assignment by the style is as follows:

Channel 9      Standard Set
Channel 10    Standard Set
Channel 11    Finger Bass
Channel 12    Jazz Guitar
Channel 13    Grand Piano
Channel 14    Trumpet
Channel 15    Trombone
Channel 16    Brass Section

In addition, I use GM for playing the style parts. The above is also what you will find other style players using for Yamaha styles including style editing software. I may not have gotten the instrument exactly as shown by the style but it will be close. In addition, this is what shows up in Ableton Live & Halion as well.

Again channel 11 in vArranger is Trombone (with no sound but it shows it is playing) vs Finger Bass.

The other channels 1-8 are used for Right Hand and Left Hand voices which I don`t use.

Thank you
Frank

[Dan]

I don't use the same channels as Yamaha.
If you find a trombone in the channel 11 it is because

Accomp4=11

The channels don't change anything to the sound you should hear....

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, so why does the Bass Strip on vArranger show channel 5 as trombone. Plus there is no sound coming from it when you solo it. Plus there is no bass coming from anywhere else in vArranger.

Looks like I am stuck ..... Oh well I tried

Thanks for all your help.

Greatly appreciated.

Frank

[Dan]

In your style, I don't see a Trombone in the BASS track. I see FINGER  (0-0-33)

- Maybe you changed it and saved it?

- Right clik on the Bass track.  SEND TO MIDI OUT 1 is active?

- Look at your VST host, maybe you filtered the channel 5 for another use?

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I got it working. channel 5 in Ableton Live was set to the wrong port-----My MISTAKE!!!!

Sorry for all the trouble I caused plus wasting your time.

I will likely need more help to get all this working but you brought me a long way to the finish line.

Thank you

Frank L. Rosenthal

[Dan]

Once everything will be ok, you will really enjoy playing music with vArranger !!!!

vArranger is the result of many years of work.

Taking some minutes to help my clients is a pleasure for me

Enjoy

Dan

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I got the menu system working....so I am near ready to go.

There are some Yamaha sytles that do not load up into vArranger with the correct instruments. I have attached one example for you to look at.

Frank

[Dan]

mmm...
Yamaha puts some sounds settings in the SInt section.
Your style does not have a SInt section.
I just changed vArranger, so if there is no SInt section, it will use the SFF1 section.
If you want, I will send you tomorrow a new version who corrects this.
Or if you can't wait add a SInt section.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I can wait for your fix for the style problem. I got a number of styles that I assume have the same issue.

Thank you
Frank

[Dan]

Inside your bad style, there is copyright from LiveStyler

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, yes that could be. It is actually a style from the PSR 9000 Pro which I used to own many, many, many years ago. I tried the original style first. It resulted in the same issue so I thought I would load it into Live-Styler and saved it with the same issue when played in vArranger. I have been a Live-Styler user for many years. Oh, the style plays ok in Live-Styler......I am getting myself into trouble if I keep this up.....oh well.

I have been a software arranger user for some 20 years, starting with Music Companion, RMCA, Jammer Live, etc.

I am trying to move over to ........................vArranger!!!!

I guess there won't be a vArranger copyright in any of the styles in the immediate future???

Frank

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, you were going to send me a modified vArranger to accomodate the Yamaha styles which do not have the SInt section. Once this is done I should be good to go and test my whole software based arranger system under full load.

Thank you

Frank
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

Just sent you... Let me know if everything is working for you.

When you will be ready, we want some demos or presentation

[Brian]

Looking forward to hearing some demos.

Brian.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan ...................... it Works!!!

I ran some 5 problem styles ( I have more) and they all seem to work as expected. I wil now proceed and put my system with vArranger at the heart under full load and see how everything works including the user interface.

Right off the top, the following is what I like about vArranger:

> It is strickly for playing styles (and left & right if you want). This keeps the amount of code down and operates very quickly.
> I like to keep my Left and Right seperate on VSTs  (Very, very, very high quality).
> I like to use my own sounds for the styles (Haion Sonic, Bandstand SGM2.01).
> I like to use my own vocal harmonizer (Antares).
> Abelton Live is a very good host for VSTs

This is why I like vArranger and why I like a software based arranger. Plus it is reliable......

On top of everything you have Dan who responds quickly and helps you get started. I got vArranger operating within a week or so and this is with a fairly complex system.

Frank
flr@mts.net

[Dan]

Cool !

Feel free to ask any questions. You still have good things to discover

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, just to make a little more clear as to why am changing from my former software arranger (you know which one it is). The former software had some of the following drawbacks:

>The code is over 110 mb.
> As a VST host it is cumbersome - I prefer my own host.
> I did not use the sounds that came with it.
> The start/stop from my A37 always required the author to modify the software on each update.
> Tempo still does not work - I have to manually modify it before it stays instead of always at 120bpm.
> Moving to a new menu always left some of the main menu covering it - it needs to refresh!!!

I, of course, understand there generally two (may be more) markets for arrangers. There are those who want everything in one package and play out of the box. There are those like myself who like to be in control of as many aspects of the software based system as possible. It is a little more complex but once setup it works as reliable as any other system (hardware or software).

You already know this.....oh well

Frank

[Dan]

Yes, vArranger is lightweight, and is .... working good

When I am writing  the code, I am thinking of me and all my users who are playing music live with a dancefloor full of crazy dancers.

So I try to do my best so you feel comfortable using it.

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan, I forgot to ask you about Reverb and Chorus. Above each sound/instrument their are 2 buttons. Below these button it indicates Chorus and when drop the menu there is no indication for Reverb. Where is the Reverb? I know I see something about Reverb on the far left for what looks to me as the overall Reverb.

The styles include levels of Reverb for each instrument. Would vArranger be sending this to Ableton Live/Halion Sonic?

Frank

[Dan]

Yes.

The Red knob in every channel is the reverb send level.
The Green knob is the chorus.  (You have to select Chorus in the list, if it is not already selected)

[Frank L. Rosenthal]

Dan.........................thank you.

You are a smart guy. You thought of everything!!!

Frank

[Dan]

Thank you!

Double click on any track, and you will find even more settings to edit...