Author Topic: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger  (Read 16460 times)

Offline Dan

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Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« on: August 24, 2010, 01:30:28 PM »
Lets start a new topic to talk about hardware.

One vArranger user (Larry) told me about this midi pedal :

http://www.logidy.com/

You have 3 pedals, and can plug an expression pedal to change one volume.

Official price :  $69.95 + shipping

Dan

Offline Bernie9

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 08:22:01 PM »
In watching the video, I see where it could be used, but I don't seem to be able to relate it to vArranger use, like the Ketron FC-6 pedal.  I have a Roland FC-7 pedal that is identical to the FC-6 with one more controller.  When you implement pedal use, I will try mine, or buy another.

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 08:43:48 PM »
OK, I will add a new topic

Offline lmbmusic

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 10:42:36 PM »
I have used this pedal and it works great. There is also a jakc in the back to add an expression pedal. Ring sleave configuration. I don't use one, but they say there are several pedals that will work.
     The nicest thing about the pedal is it is recognized as a midi usb device. You don't have to have another usb to midi adapter. Just plug it into the usb poet and VArranger recognizes it right away. Then in the configuration menu just highlight the function you want it to control and step on the button. You are ready to go. There is also a control program that comes with the pedal so
you can modify the configuation of the buttons and save them for recall. It would be easy to chain more than one pedal together using a usb expander. I could see a guy adding a couple pedals just to use more of the control features in VArranger.
    Bottom line is I tried it and it works great. Simple to use. And the price is right.......

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 12:15:01 AM »
I just found a nice hardware

http://www.eowave.com/controllers.php?prod=53

You can plug here up to 4 footswitchs or Volume pedals to control vArranger.

Dan


Offline jan1kow

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I have just bought the eowave 4 input foot controller and will let you all know how it works when I recieve it.
I plan to use my Nano controller seperately plugged into a laptop usb input. Then use the eowave foot controller for two drum fills latch switches and also for two volume pedals. One volume pedal for style volume and the other for right volume so right (melody/solo part) can have expression/volume adjusted independently from the second style volume pedal. I feel I need to controll the style volume as all styles have slightly different in volumes from one to another style . No matter how hard you try to make global uniformity in volumes between all the styles, and then saving the ballanced styles. I have tried to ballance the volumes in all styles to play at same volume but this is not possible as the individual note velocity varies from style to style causing volumes to vary. eg. A bass noet set at volume 100 with note velocity on 100 will play louder then another style with sam volume but the note velocity in the style was only 80. Its not really possible to know what the note velocities and expression values within styles are without style editing software. And thats a lot of work and editing. I think a volume pedal for the styles is the easiest way to regulate the volume ballancing and differences between styles.
jon
edinburgh   

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 10:46:29 AM »
Welcome Jon,

Let us know.

Dan

Offline lmbmusic

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2011, 12:50:28 AM »
I have been using this pedal and it has worked flawlessly. the funtion I use is start stop, fade and hold.
But sometimes I change the fade to a fill function. Sure like the way you made it easy to assign the switches Dan

Offline jan1kow

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 06:26:46 PM »
The logidy looks ideal for most simple less complex set ups and takes 1 expression pedal also.

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 12:36:10 PM »
Another idea is to control vArranger with a wireless PC keyboard, and put some stickers on it.

This interesting keyboard is working without batteries but with solar energy !

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/7454

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2011, 02:57:26 PM »

Offline jan1kow

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Making old 1/4" jack plug foot switch pedals and volume/expression pedals work with USB for vArranger.

I wanted to use my old original foot pedals set-up work the same way as they did with my Solton MS40 and Ketron SD3.
There are expensive USB pedal units available bit the layout is not to my needs and they also do too many other functions that I do not need at present. 
I have not seen any combined USB switch/volume pedal units that I can use "blind" without the need to look around the floor for their whereabouts as they tend to move around the floor after using them several times. I have also found that ready made USB switch and volume pedal units are not positioned in a layout that I can be sure that I will be pressing the correct pedals without looking at them which is not possible with an accordion on your knees. Common problems are the space between switches or pedals being set too close together, one switch directly above the other switch and the entire pedal unit moving its position on the floor.
I had to find a way of making old pedals with 1/4" jack plugs now work as USB pedals with vArranger.
Basically I kept the amount of pedals needed to a minimum for size and practical ease of use when playing my accordion and SD2 with vArranger using Ketron and Yamaha patterns/styles. To do this in live performance I need two volume pedals, one for the vArranger Style and one for vArranger Right.
This way I can balance the volumes between the Styles accompaniments and the Right used for lead melody solo or accompanying vocals on right hand playing.   
I see many non vArranger keyboard players needing to use 2 keyboards to achieve this set up. Typically a Ketron keyboard for style accompaniments and a Korg keyboard on top for Right hand solo and vocal accompanyment.
With keeping my switch pedals to only two pedals I still  need to have a choice of Style Drum Fills 1, 2, 3 and 4/break and Endings 1, 2, 3 and 4 which would need 8 switch pedals. Now this is possible with the new (v1.11) vArranger ASSIGNABLE CONTROLLER feature which allows you to assign the pedal controllers. I will explain how I do this in part 2 later this week.
I have grouped my (Style) volume pedal, fill and ending switch pedals together securing all 3 pedals onto a wooden base shaped which stays in the same position on the floor for the entire performance. 

To make the old jack plug pedal units work with vArranger I bought two USB Logidy UMI-3 foot switch controllers http://www.logidy.com/?pid=0
They only supply direct from USA so UK import tax is payable which doubles the cost but I think they are still inexpensive for their purposes. They are good strong made metal units but the switches are too close and the optional volume pedal would need to be separate. They also have an input to accept one volume pedal by plugging your old volume pedal 1/4" jack into the back of the Logidy unit. The Logidy units are also powered by USB cable and have a small yellow activity LED light. Luckily the Logidy units internal green circuit board is small enough (approx. 5x5cm) to remove and refit inside your old volume pedals as I have  done. Either to make a pedal board layout specific to your needs or to eliminated the need for additional USB controller units needing connected to old pedals.
To make the Analogue to USB pedal conversion you carefully remove the green Logidy curcuit board from its black steel case by snipping the wires to seperat them from their switched and reconnect your own switch pedal wires accordingly and refitting the pcb into free space inside your old volume pedal. You can also extend the yellow led wires to use in the ¼ “jack volume pedal units. The Logidy volume pedal input forms part of the green circuit board so you do not need to change anything here. You could also permanently re-connect your old volume pedal wires internally by soldering the wired from the potentiometer directly onto the green Logidy expression pedal input plug. but I have chosen to use the external input from the original Logidy 1/4" jack pug input from my volume pedal (see pictures). Now you have your old 1/4" pedals and switches that work with USB and no additional controller units to carry and connect.
     
My left foot permanently rests/presses onto the centre of the wooden base which stops any movement keeping the entire units position on the floor. I simply place my foot onto the Style volume pedal before I start playing a Style. Start a style and adjust the pedal to the required volume needed, place my foot into the middle of my home made wooden pedal base being ready to press the fills switch pedal as needed throughout the style playing. The main advantage is that I can keep my foot/heel on the ground always in the same place and simply lift my toes to the right to press the fills switch pedal throughout the song as many times needed and always accurately as the pedal unit does not move position. For the ending I simply lift my foot forward and press the switch pedal to trigger an ending. The second volume pedal is separate allowing use with my right foot. I have not found a need to attach any switch pedals to this unit but for both units up to 3 switch pedals can be achieved making a total of 2 volume pedals and 6 switch pedals if needed.

To follow (Part two)
Setting up vArrangers new assignable controllers feature with old 1/4" jack plug foot pedals.
This allows same switch pedal to have different functions/controls depending on the song they are saved to.
So in one style/song the switch pedal triggers the ending 1 and on another style/song the same switch pedal triggers ending 3.
No need for two pedals needing to be dedicated to only one function each when one pedal will do the two functions. 

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2012, 10:21:00 AM »
Another cool pedal board to control vArranger

http://line6.com/footcontrollers/fbvexpressmkii.html

Offline Gerard

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 09:59:57 PM »
I bought the Behringer FCB1010 for $137 USD, new, from eBay.
I believe this is the same one that is pictured in the vArranger manual.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

To setup, the absolulute first thing that must be done is to calibrate the expression pedals or they will not work.
Just follow instructions in the manual.

Then, in Varranger, Options, Controllers, simply press the switch or expression pedal that you want to work for that function.

Personally, I use switches for start/stop, arrangerB, arrangerC, arrangerD, Transpose + and Transpose -.
The left expression pedal I use to control the volume for Left/Right Volume.
The right expression pedal I use for Style Volume.

Just one expression pedal alone would cost up to $50, and you could not separate the volume like you can on the Behringer.

That's my  2 cents for whatever it is worth.
Gerard

Offline jan1kow

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 07:54:30 PM »
I am still using these analogue jack plug to usb converter units and like them thay continue to work well.
jon
edinburgh

Offline jan1kow

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2012, 07:56:16 PM »
I heard the Behringer FCB1010 was not easy to set up etc. ?
jon

Offline jan1kow

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 08:05:18 PM »
Simple clarification on the lodigy unit.
It works  2 x 1/4 inch on and off foot switches and one 1/4 inch volume pedal.
If you connect your old analogue 1/4 style pedals they will now work as USB throught this converter unit.
The unit converts to USB usage and will work VArranger intros, fills and endings etc.
Your volume pedal will work any ONE of any of the 16 varranger tracks  and any ONE of the right/left/master vilumes .
All you do is select the volume controller as needed in Varranger.
jon

Offline jan1kow

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eowave
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2012, 08:07:01 PM »
The eowave unit did not memorise the settings for me and they refunded the money .


Offline jan1kow

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2012, 08:08:25 PM »
you can only get the logidy unit directly from USA.
Shipping to UK is £36 GBP for customs and tax etc. so about £75 GBP in total to UK
jon

Offline Gerard

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2012, 10:09:34 PM »
Hi jan1kow,

The Behringer FCB1010 is very easy to set up.
It takes 5 minutes.
The main thing before hooking it up to vArranger, is to calibrate the expression pedals.
It is right in the manual and easy to do.
Then once you put the USB cable in your computer set it up as a second or third midi input.
If you put it as the second input, make sure you have "Play Notes" OFF!
In options, select Controllers, and scroll down to a function you want the pedal to do.
For example, you could scroll down to Arranger A, make sure you highlight it, and press Pedal 1, for example.
vArranger will show the connection.
Continue this until you have all the switches and pedals assigned the way you want.

Gerard

Offline jan1kow

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FCB1010 MIDI Footcontroller
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 12:03:14 AM »
hi gerard
There are mixed reviews . mainly about difficulty to program it.
here are some reviews that make me not so sure.   ...............................

here are some reviews that make me stay away but in fairness there are also some good comments

http://www.harmonycentral.com/products/5304
jon
LOL EASE OF USE.. LOL.. let me see its not easy to use its a peace of crap. I am a sound engineer I have programed some of the most advanced processors/consoles in the world. And this thing is so cryptic its not funny.. I have version 2.1 firmware and it has a huge bug in it. The company should be ashamed of them selves by not providing FREE UPGRADES + THE FIRMWARE CHIP for this crap product. I understand that the newer version firmware fixes these bugs. But lets face it how many people can reprogram an eprom? ITS A JOKE BERRINGER DO THE RIGHT THING HERE AND SEND FREE CHIPS TO THE CUSTOMERS THAT NEED THEM TO FIX YOUR CRAP PRODUCT.

HAHA customer support.. Yes we have a firmware update.. No we dont give you the chip with the firmware on it lol..

Listen its cheap and when its got the new firmware its great but if you buy a used one with the old firmware be prepaired to wait a week or more before you can get the new firmware update that you will have to pay $15.00 for... NOT COOL

If you're a musician and not a nuclear physicist, I'd recommend something else...ANYTHING else...Hell, I'd even recommend a ton of chopped pork - you'd have more chance getting that to control Mainstage...
0 Comments Tags:
 
Ease of use.......let's see........it took me 3 weeks and hours of downloading information and studying it until I was able to program the FCB1010 and slave it to my Behringer DSP2024P effects unit. Now, these items are related and come from the same manufacturer, and, it would seem, that they'd be easy to connect, but nooooooo! This is not a convenient and easy to use foot controller board, .....but once you understand how it works it is AWESOME. Here's a downside. EVERY TIME YOU TURN ON YOUR FCB1010 YOU HAVE TO REPROGRAM IT - IT HAS NO MEMORY. Don't let this hold you back, it's just a routine you have to get used to before you use it. Here is the answer to another mystery of this pedal board - WHEN LINKED TO THE BEHRINGER DSP2024P THE EXPRESSION PEDALS DO NOT FUNCTION! For whatever reason you have these two beautiful expression pedals that could be used for say, volume, or say, intensity, and when used with the Virtualizer DSP2024P they are entirely useless. I actually place my mic preamp on them to hide them from my visual disappointment.

I've contacted Behringer for programming issues and they've always gotten back to me. This unit is hard to comprehend, but once you've got it, it becomes an invaluable tool in your musician's tool box. Remember, the folks giving you help are German, and expect you to know the unit and understand the concept of their hardware. If you don't understand it in the first place, it will be impossible to understand their explanations.

I'm a pro player, have lots of gear and have many Behringer components. I really like them all, and would have to be convinced that there is something better, on my level, for the money, that would get my ideas across. The learning curve for the FCB1010 is pretty steep, but it eliminates a lot of wires and crap onstage, and has the toughness and reliability that I need on the road.





Offline Gerard

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 01:29:36 AM »
I'll put it this way.
I opened up the box and in 20 minutes I had it calibrated and assigned all the functions I needed to it.
I have been using it ever since.

Gerard

Offline jan1kow

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 08:12:00 AM »
Gerard
I believe you. Its just confusing that others say different.
Thanks again
jon

Offline one

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2012, 03:42:51 PM »
Hi Gerard , I just bought a fcb 1010 but can't figure it out so Dan say you are the one I need to talk too. The problem
I am having is assigning the two expression padel. When I assign padel 2 to master volume it just go from 0 to127 and dose not move
back. It just stays at 127. I also calibrated the padel like you said in the manual. Any help would be great...thanks

Offline Gerard

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 12:24:54 PM »
Hi one,
It looks like it may still be a problem with calibrating.

When you calibrate the expression pedals, you have to go through the full range of motion.

Meaning, from all the way back to all the way down and back again.

I have mine set up, one expression pedal for style volume and one for voice volume and works fine.

Gerard

Offline one

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2012, 03:13:09 PM »
Gerard, I will try calibrating it again. Thanks

Offline freeway

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2012, 08:53:16 PM »


Le 20 mars 2012 20:01, jack1.mclaughlin@yahoo.ie <contact@varranger.fr> a écrit :

    I bought the Scythe usb triple foot switch on 23rd March 2011. :) I have been using it very successfully on my music gigs I play guitar using  Varranger with sd2 on my laptop :) On Sat night 17th March my footswitch stopped functioning during a gig which meant I had to use my hand to start/ stop the pattern which was very troublesome as I need both hands for guitar. :) I tried it again on Sunday and it is now working again perfectly. :) Do you have any thoughts what may have caused this? or more to the point do you think this problem may re occur?. :( I have been using varranger for the past year on my gigs, and it has been the best band member I have ever had, thanks Dan :) :) :)

Dan
[/quote]

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2012, 09:09:36 PM »
Hi Jack,

Thank you for your appreciation.
The scythe is sending keyboard shortcuts.
When it hangs, you may try to unplug and replug the USB pedal, or try another USB port.
There is also sometimes after windows hybernation, USB not working.
I suggest to put your power settings at MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE during gigs
You may also try solutions posted here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900/en-us

Offline paoloaccordion

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2013, 07:37:42 PM »
I bought the Behringer FCB1010 for $137 USD, new, from eBay.
I believe this is the same one that is pictured in the vArranger manual.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

To setup, the absolulute first thing that must be done is to calibrate the expression pedals or they will not work.
Just follow instructions in the manual.

Then, in Varranger, Options, Controllers, simply press the switch or expression pedal that you want to work for that function.

Personally, I use switches for start/stop, arrangerB, arrangerC, arrangerD, Transpose + and Transpose -.
The left expression pedal I use to control the volume for Left/Right Volume.
The right expression pedal I use for Style Volume.

Just one expression pedal alone would cost up to $50, and you could not separate the volume like you can on the Behringer.

That's my  2 cents for whatever it is worth.
Gerard

How to connect it to varranger? has not usb

Offline patrizio1000

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2018, 07:18:52 PM »
Hi all, can we re-open this discussion about foot control to control varranger, intros, endings, variations and fill ins.
To all interested I have a question!

Has we now in varranger we could have up to 4 intros, 4 endings, 4 variations and 4 fill-ins per style depending if it is a Roland style or yamaha style or Ketron style.
in all there is 16 buttons to control.

So my question is: What would be your ideal foot switch?
one with 16 buttons that controls each individual buttons?
Or one with 4 buttons to control let's say the 4 variations plus an extra button to change the page of those buttons so now they can control the 4 endings.
So in others words that extra button is to select if you want to use the buttons has intros, endings , variations or fill-ins.
I have attached a file with a design of a foot pedal box.
The buttons are in a step design so the foot doesn't interfere with other buttons if the buttons were all in one level.
If that is not a good configuration what of the following configuration would be ideal.

All 16 buttons in one line?
Ex: .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
Or in keyboard like style
Ex: .    .    .   .    .    .    .    .
        .    .   .    .    .    .    .    .

Or any other idea's configuration.
Plus do you think that other buttons should be there like vriff or auto or start stop or any anything else

I have in mind to design a foot controller dedicated for the varranger.
So if you guys have any input or any ideas or how do you want this box to be built. let me know!


Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2018, 11:25:41 PM »
You can also have less pedals...Only one for intros, one for ending. if you press it many times it goes from 1 2 3 4
You can use Variation UP / DOWN  only 2 pedals for the 4 variations A B C D
You can add only one pedal for FILL IN that will do one fill in , related to the current variation playing, or even no FILL IN, as we have an AUTO FILL IN feature...

Many options there.... We also create some hardware modules for pedals....

Offline patrizio1000

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2018, 01:36:07 PM »
Hi Dan,

So you say to have less buttons the better.
one button for intros and one for endings that rotates, meaning that first you press the intro button plays intro 1 second time you press that same button plays intro 2 and so on.
Isn't that a problem? let's say you want to start with intro 3. you need to press 3 times that same button but as soon as you press it once intro one will start to play immediately, see what I mean. I don't know if there is a way to avoid that.

Plus yo said that you also create hardware modules for pedals.
Where can I see this hardware?
do you have pictures, samples?

Offline Dan

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Re: Interresting Hardware to control vArranger
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2018, 01:48:42 PM »
You select intro 3 by pressing 3 times, then you press START
If it is actually playing, you press 3 times before the new bar
I also mainly build different hardware solutions for vArranger users that you are not for now
It depends on your need, and if you already have your own pedal or not