Author Topic: Record tracks from start position.  (Read 1078 times)

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Record tracks from start position.
« on: August 05, 2018, 12:22:04 AM »
Hi Dan.
What it would take for you to make individual tracks record from TRUE starting point of the composition, not from "where the sound starts"?
You are helping people with their stuff, why not me? This issue should have been addressed as soon as you made the "feature" to start recording when sounds start, so people have an option not to use it if  they do not need it.. 

BIAB renders all tracks in separate files, including a mixed master without any latency or discrepancies that you were mentioning. Since, most likely this will never get done in Varranger, I kindly ask you at least to make it possible for individual (solo) tracks to be recorded from the start of the composition, not the start of the sound. If you do can not (do not) want to do it globally, can you please modify my version, so at least I do not suffer.

vArranger is your child. Do not be a drunkard father. Buy a small candy for your baby, you will not be broke.

Kindly let me know.
Thank you.

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 01:14:39 AM »
Dan, support no longer applies?
Quote:
"Get direct support from the developer or in the forum. We help you with your setup and if needed, we assist you directly in your computer"

What I ask takes minutes to correct, not hours. In my case you are erasing code lane, not adding. Why you make it painful?

Offline Dan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7840
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 07:58:40 PM »
On a normal audio recorder, when you press the record button, it starts recording immediately.
On the vArranger intelligent recorder, when you press the record button, it waits for the first note before starting the recording, so the file is perfectly cropped to start when you have some sound

What you're asking is something different.
When you press record, it will start recording when you will press the start button.

It doesn't follow the main reason of the record feature, because, it will not record if someone play some melody notes before pressing the START button, and also let some empty sound in the beginning of the wav file
Also, you want this feature to have multiple records to play later together in sync. But this will not be the case, as the midi (and audio?) clock will not have the same exact reference on each recording, this will result on jitter and maybe drifting too, and will not deserve your need

So what to do......?

Did you try to record separate tracks with vArranger that have a note in the beginning of each track at position 0:0, and see if you can just import the wav files on your DAW and if they are still playing together after 5 minutes?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:00:45 PM by Dan »

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 11:39:10 PM »
Dan, of course I did. Many (MANY) times!  SF2 alone and  SF2+VST. I tried about 3 1/2 minutes, multiple WAV files Syncing fine in DAW.
But if the track sounds starts somewhere in the middle, I can not do it freehand.
Can you please remove this "start on sound" code for me that starts recording when START button is pressed so on the tracks that start sound later it records the silence.

PLEASE!!!

P.S. Band in the box renders many tracks at same time MIDi + AUDIO + MIX. Always syncing correctly.

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2018, 05:10:12 PM »
Dan, can you please do this for me?

Offline Dan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7840
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 06:11:41 PM »
You seems to not understand that if I remove the "start on sound" code, it will then start recording when you press the RECORD button, like a normal recorder

What can be done maybe is that vArranger sends a note C10 of velocity 1 on right1 channel at the time 0:0  this will cause the record to start.

Really not sure about if files will be in sync

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2018, 06:49:28 PM »
Dan, I do not know why you are saying it will be out of sync on Record button press..Since you are not "rendering" audio, but recording in real time, midi clock will honor real time.
If you think a "note trigger" will be more accurate start position, sure. If you can make that permanent in my version, that would also work just fine for me.
 

P.S. ideally (and more professionally)  would be rendering all channels in separate files like BIAB does, but it seems I can not persuade you to do that.

Please let me know.


Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 04:41:12 PM »
Dan can you do this please?

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 07:00:18 PM »
Dan, can you please reply to this?
I still think the best idea would be to be able to fast render all arranger channels into separate WAV files. One per channel simultaneously, same way Band In The Box does. (and ALL modern DAWS)
It will not overload anything. It should not be a problem at all for modern computers. This would be a smart way.

If vArranger had a good way of mixing tracks, Proper volume envelopes and support for complex mastering plugins such as Neutron 2 or Ozone,  I would never asked for it.   This is common sense approach.

Kindly reply.
Thank you.


Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 12:58:57 PM »
Dan?

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 04:28:00 PM »
Dan would you kindly answer to my reply to your private message. This is important to me.

Offline Dan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7840
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 06:07:44 PM »
ok

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 01:29:05 AM »
Dan, I replied to your PM, but it bounced back:
Message:
. Deferred
Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours

Not sure if you are aware of that.

Offline Dan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7840
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 11:33:12 AM »
strange.
just sent you a test email, and you can answer here

Offline PierreD

  • vArranger
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2019, 05:28:25 PM »
Hi Bluebeat,
did you find a way to get "individual tracks record from TRUE starting point of the composition, not from "where the sound starts"?

My work-around is to use LoopMidi for sending a MIDI chord from the DAW (Reaper in my case) to vArranger and to use Sync Start.
In that way, the record start of the DAW and the play start of vArranger are synchronised and it is possible to solo each channel one after another and to record them one by one with the DAW from the very beginning without time shift. I didn´t try extensively but it seems to work well. (I use vArranger with an SD1000.)

Sure this is still far away from fast rendering all channels in one go to wave files!

I must confess that I would be happy too if Dan would do all you ask for because I try to use vArranger the same way you want to!!
However I understand that this is not the concept behind vArranger which is dedicated to playing live. Hence I appreciate the goodies like song chords and MIDI export and I try not to be too frustrated by the missing features  ;)

Pierre

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2019, 10:36:26 PM »
 Pierre,
tracks of vArranger sync well to themselves, but not to true timeline.
If you are working how you describe, going straight with midi, that is one thing and it should work
because midi is easy to fix.
To use Vsynth and export WAV so it matches true timeline/bpm , as Dan explained, would need to be based on clock. (Because vArranger does not adhere to particular clock). Dan recently said that he is working on Sync In that would solve that. I am waiting for that feature very patiently  :)


Offline KeyOfZ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2019, 03:05:54 AM »
To Bluebeat

It is Really not fair to Compare Rendering in BIAB to Varranger.
Except. It faces the Same problems as BIAB. But BIAB does have a Clock source.

Outside of BIAB's other problems.

BIAB (Even 2019) Has problems Rendering Stems Correctly!(In the first place).
And the more Complex the Project. The More Likely BIAB will mess up Rendering in Sync.
OR
Not Make All the Stems. The same length. EG: It loses some of the music. From some of the tracks.

If the music is Long and/or complex. It always Takes a number of tries. To get BIAB to render correctly.

And this is simply because. BIAB Re-Analyzes Everything. Every single time. You Do Something Like 'Play', 'Render' ETC.....
(Unless you render inside of BIAB Then hit play).
*By Complex. I mean. Using a 'Rest', A 'Push' or any other. Music Nuance tool in BIAB.

It never seems to have a problem. If you just Type in the Chords And Play to Their Grid.

I have been Discussing this with PG music for years. Since it is not a DAW. It is extremely difficult to do.

**I have it on 3 different computers. Same results. And a Big number of other users have the same problems.

Offline bluebeat

  • vArranger
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
    • View Profile
Re: Record tracks from start position.
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2019, 04:44:34 AM »
KeyOfZ, not sure what you are saying...
You render (export) individual files in BIAB (unmixed, dry and centered). Each of the exported waves do   adhere to timeline in DAW and work very well with samples other than from BIAB source.  These are your stems...  I use BIAB, not Realband, so can only speak for what I had been doing.

Rest and holds are tricky, but if you have non BIAB files that are in sync, it is easy cut and move things around (before/after shot, hold , rest).
 If  items are not to sync, such as VA exported WAVs , you have to do crazy tricks to make them work, like transients  and all that good stuff, which is pain in butt.