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Sound Module Question

Started by Deane, November 22, 2016, 01:47:08 AM

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Deane

I am using the Ketron SD2 sound module and wanted to know if anyone has used the SD2 and changed to the SD1000?  If so, how much of an improvement did you see in the SD1000?

Thanks,
Deane

cmpessoa

I am very interested in answers to this question too! Anyone?

tthoms

Hello,
I've tested both the sd2 and sd1000. Unfortunatly not all controls of the sd1000 are implemented into the vA2. So you can't use the all possibilities of the sd1000. I have developped a supplementary software where I can set the relevant parameters for the sd1000 and sd2  for each song. (See attachement).  With that I could achieve a better sound for the sd1000 than the sd2. It is domage that the controls for the sd1000 and sd2 are not implemented completly and song specific in the vA2 until yet. For me this would be more important than implement other goodies like harmonies. The interfaces to the sd2 and sd1000 are not complet implemented until today in the vA2!
Thom

Deane

Dan,
Did you try both the SD2 and the SD1000?  Seems strange there has not been more replies to this post.

Deane

Lylo

It's difficult for Dan to satisfied all people, for exemple I use sf2 and vsti since... 2012, so improvements for sd2 or sd1000 are no utility for me.

Convertissors are better in sd1000.

haweneu

Hi,
i only use the SD1000 and also miss the store and load SD1000 effectsettings with songs!
This is the only thing that i miss in the moment in VA2!

Tthoms:
Are you from germany? I am!
What was your program language for your software?

Igor Electronician

Quote from: Lylo on December 12, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
It's difficult for Dan to satisfied all people, for exemple I use sf2 and vsti since... 2012, so improvements for sd2 or sd1000 are no utility for me.

Convertissors are better in sd1000.
Dear Lylo,
You are constantly trying to answer the questions to Daniel, instead of him personally. Why? Unless you are a business partner of the author of  program?
I don't understand why Dan was avoiding topics about the management effect processor SD1000... it is interesting, moreover, that is not to use these features of the sound module, for which the money paid, very strange. If you do not need and not interesting -it's a personal matter, no one here does not impose anyone their opinions.

peixotolopes

I Have both Modules SD2 and Sd1000, there is a significant difference in the instruments specially on brass in general and individually but more important for my kind of work the drums also have an increase of sound quality.

The only negative issue I find in Sd1000 I couldn't find a way to work the 32 midi channels that are announced, my goal was to have 16 dedicated with Varranger (SD1000) and the others 16 (SD1000 2)  the direct input from a second keyboard, it allways goes send to same track from the Varranger.

Also SD1000 you don't need power supply neither midi-USB cable converters it's an USB cable and that's it.

To Carlos Pessoa se precisares de ajuda apita pelo facebook!

Hope it's the answer you need!

cmpessoa

Thanks (obrigado) peixotolopes :-)
Um abraço.

Lylo

#9
Quote from: Igor Electronician on December 14, 2016, 07:00:12 PM
Quote from: Lylo on December 12, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
It's difficult for Dan to satisfied all people, for exemple I use sf2 and vsti since... 2012, so improvements for sd2 or sd1000 are no utility for me.

Convertissors are better in sd1000.
Dear Lylo,
You are constantly trying to answer the questions to Daniel, instead of him personally. Why? Unless you are a business partner of the author of  program?
I don't understand why Dan was avoiding topics about the management effect processor SD1000... it is interesting, moreover, that is not to use these features of the sound module, for which the money paid, very strange. If you do not need and not interesting -it's a personal matter, no one here does not impose anyone their opinions.
Hello, lol  ;D no I'm not a business partner but lot of features are from my idea or a help for Dan to organise his brain. If I said SD1000 improvements are no utility for me it"s because I think the sound modules are hasbeen, but it's only my opinion (I think so it's the reality) and I don't said you cannot request the features for the SD1000, I just said "be patient, me too I'm be patient for more features since a long time now, the software is more and more complexity and perhaps the first will be the SD10000 features, it"s no problem for me."

Deane

Although I appreciate the input the information being given is not much help in
trying to decide if replacing my SD2 unit with the SD1000 is worth doing.  I only use vArranger with a sound module and do not use VSTs or things like that.  As for as sounds being "hasbeen" that is a good thing for what I do.  One of my complaints now about vArranger is Dan has taken the sounds to far to the modern feel to fit the music I play at gigs.  I need good sound sources that will be good to use for music from the 1920s- the early 1960s.  I gig 5-7 times each week at very well to do retirement homes for people whose average age is above 70.  When I first installed vArranger the styles and sounds were just about perfect for what I needed.  As Dan made upgrades the sounds became much more "in your face" with a lot of effects in place.  Unfortunately, my clients don't like that kind of music or sound.  Anyway, I am trying to find a way to salvage my investment in vArranger and still be able to use it for my gigs.

Deane

Igor Electronician

Quote from: Lylo on December 14, 2016, 10:25:34 PM
Quote from: Igor Electronician on December 14, 2016, 07:00:12 PM
Quote from: Lylo on December 12, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
It's difficult for Dan to satisfied all people, for exemple I use sf2 and vsti since... 2012, so improvements for sd2 or sd1000 are no utility for me.

Convertissors are better in sd1000.

Hello, lol  ;D no I'm not a business partner but lot of features are from my idea or a help for Dan to organise his brain. If I said SD1000 improvements are no utility for me it"s because I think the sound modules are hasbeen, but it's only my opinion (I think so it's the reality) and I don't said you cannot request the features for the SD1000, I just said "be patient, me too I'm be patient for more features since a long time now, the software is more and more complexity and perhaps the first will be the SD10000 features, it"s no problem for me."
Well, your position is partly understandable. But what you think is not a hasbeen? VST instruments? Currently, I have not seen a decent and complete replacement of sound modules and tone generators hardware synths. VSTi require huge amounts of disk space and memory of computers, a sufficiently high computing power. Different SF2 banks (done by method of sampling with synthesizers Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc) are not capable of reliably, with all the nuances to simulate the operation signal processors (DSP) and the tone generators of their prototypes. You write: "the software is more and more complexity" ... When you received the latest update vA2 to appreciate the complexities introduced in the program, more than a year ago? ;)
Can wait endlessly for the sea for the weather (Idioms: To let the grass grow under one's feet (eng). 'attendre que les alouettes vous tombent toutes rôties (franc.)). lol ))

Best Regards,
Igor

Lylo

#12
You are right for the dsp, it's real but if you want play rigth hand with a good piano sound, i'm sorry but a vsti is much better than a SD1000 or SD100000000, it's the same things for EP, bass, Uprigth bass, cello etc. you must have a good computer for working with vsti, certainly, but your sounds can evolved. The vA soundfonts banks are ok, perhaps not so good as the SD1000 but for the same price you can have Ketron, Yamaha, Roland and Korg sounds.
But it's not what I said for the topic, I said the evolved of vArranger is more complexity and for improvement, it's more difficult for Dan to add features, me to I want some smalls features but one small feature + another and another and another make lot of job and always need tests for the stability of the software.

BjayG

Interesting discussion.  I have an SD2 and an SD1000 and my biggest issue is the loss of the drawbars in the SD1000  (are  in the SD2 not in SD1000 as far as I can tell).  They were actually quite useful.

With regards to things taking a long time to get implemented .... I have long since given up hope that some essential developments will arrive in a reasonable time or indeed happen at all with vA (or vapor Arranger as some people apparently now call it).  As a trivial example: its now nearly 3 years since I asked for the saving of split points (and was assured it would happen)  [Feb 2014].  So I now just accept vA as it is - and am grateful for small mercies as we say in this part of the world.  I don't bother to ask for more or try to provide any input because its frankly a waste of time.

I have heard that Dan is now working on support for Technics styles.    If this is true then I think it indicates that there is no development plan at all.   As I have said before: Dan clearly has no spare time  (and if you have a separate full time job, a family and do gigging then how can you have...) - so wasting time on adding support for a 20 years old obsolete style format is ridiculous.

Personally - I think the time would be better spent sorting out some of the more annoying aspects of vA:  like having to save user voices for everything; like lack of registration/performance memory and some form of improved style audition option  (i.e. how do you pick the best choice from 50,000 styles).   

Maybe I'm cynical - but it always seems surprising how quick things happen if the end result looks like more sales

And Lylo - I (and others actually) have always wondered if you were Dan's business partner as you speak for him so often - so thanks for explaining that (you are clearly his very loyal friend).   However, you have clearly failed in helping him organize his brain as you suggest   :(

Barry

Pekilik

vA2 has some basic problems like replaying notes in Fill in's, and reset cc control if are the same in the both styles when change style from first to second(it is important if you using VST like Kontakt 5 or ect...),
it's nice that Dan work on implementation of Technics style format, maybe it is good for some potential buyers, it is good marketing...
but because vA2 very long time, has this basic problems, some old users is considering to sell vA2 and to buy hardware arrangers, this is very bad marketing...

Igor Electronician

#15
Dear Lylo

I am in no way detract from the merits of certain synths VSTi. There are delightful pianos with the principles of physical modeling sound. Also wind and string instruments, etc. They are perfectly applicable for the performance of classical pieces for music production.
We are talking about using soft synths for systems with auto-accompaniment. That's just in this case there is no full replacement of the sound modules and hardware synths. All the sound banks that I've heard in a group (ensemble) the sound is only a pale semblance of the sound of hardware synths.
Returning to the theme of "cool VSTi". I think that if the party (or restaurant) you will play a polka or some kind of folk dance to the sound of the Steinway Grand piano or play on a very simple synth Casio, visitors will all give a damn. ))
https://youtu.be/eM0mAyPzASc
Because the instruments with auto-accompaniment is to a greater extent devices for entertainment, rather than professional.
PS
Maybe I would have bought a Tyros4 SF2 Bank for vA2, but for some reason Dan never sent a sound sample of the styles, MIDI files that I sent him. I wanted to compare the actual sound and Tyros4 SF2 Bank. Could not wait for this, as well as instructions on using the control panel effects in the SD1000... :)

All good health!  :) Let's hope the progress of improvement vA2 will not keep itself waiting and all the expectations and hopes users will come true.

cirerenrut

If people researched vArranger properly they would be aware of it's limitations, instead of which, they buy the product and immediately start asking for something that suites their particular set up and start carping when they cannot see it materialising.
The arranger ticks so many boxes and what it does not I for one can live without and be pleasantly surprised if it is added in the next version
( for which I paid nothing ).
To go back to Deane's original question. I have SD1000 and it sounds good but I cannot make a comparison with the SD2 but it beats the Roland Bk7 and the Yamaha MM6 for the quality of voices. I do not know if vArranger2 will edit SD1000 I just play it.

Eric
         

Lylo

#17
 ;) Igor

The accordion isn't a SD1000 sound.  ;D
If the "visitors will give a damn" the musician, if the musician is a pianist, he prefer play a good sound and in accompaniement, the singer love hear the pianist with a good sound. :) You know I have this discussion with a friend and we are not ok, it's a no end discussion because each other are right.
If you are a good pianist you play much piano sound than a pity pianist.... who is really good user of arranger with lot variety of sound in right hand ;)
For you understand what I say, you must know I play in restaurant from twelves years every week and this 31st decembre I will play 5 hours of dance music... only with vArranger, sf2 and vsti. :)
So you must understand that vArranger is now with audio features and Dan can't improve only SD features... as I understand he cannot improved only audio and vst features.

Deane

This has turned into a very interesting thread.  What seems to be happening is different people are using vArranger in different ways and what really is great for some is not so great for others.  Don't know what you do about that.   From my perspective I use vArranger exactly like I would use my Korg PA4X or my Tyros 4  as an arranger - using right hand sounds for melody and left hand for chords only.   So what is important to me are those features you would find on any Top of the line arranger keyboard.   I have not interest in VSTs or "modern" sounding sounds.  What I have noticed after one of Dan's upgrades is a what I would call a severe amount of reverb on just about all the sounds.  I have tried to turn it down but that has not helped much.  I tried using Dan's new sounds - in fact I was the very first one to buy them from Dan.  But that is when all the reverb started.  As for piano sounds - wow is that a topic for another thread.  I have a long time professional music background including some years with a major Symphonic orchestra.  I have heard just about every kind of piano known to man - many performers would play only their own pianos and brought them with them.  In my experience NONE of them sounded the same - so who is to say what a good piano sound is or for that matter a clarinet or trumpet sound?   If you are a very young player and have been brought up to believe a band is made up of guitars and drums  - well - you might have a different idea about sounds than say someone who has played next to world class players all their life.  Anyway,
I still have faith in Dan and in the long term he will come through for us.

Deane

slaveofword

Hello, everybody!
I allmost agree with Igor, Deane, Haweneu. I think Dan can help us and other users take control of SD1000 effects inside vA2. I have post about it a few month ago. But not have unswer yet.
Dan, we ask you help us! Thanks! Best regards