Bluetooth and Midi

[cirerenrut]

Hi
I have a Samsung RF711 laptop and I wish to wirelessly connect to a Samsung HW-450F soundbar. vArranger shows two Bluetooth audio outputs. 1) Wasapi : Speakers ( Bluetooth hands-free audio) which does not work, 2) DirectSound : Speakers ( Bluetooth hands-free Audio ) which does work but there is a lag between playing a key and hearing the voice.
Am I wasting my time in attempting to use this system ?. Incidentally vArranger accompaniment works perfectly.

Eric

[Dan]

Try using ASIO4ALL, and let us know if it is working

[cirerenrut]

No Dan, the only one that produces sound is Directsound . Wasapi AND ASIO4ALL produce no sound when selected.

[pax_eterna]

What OS are you using?

[Dan]

Can you run the http://www.varranger.com/support.exe  so I can try to help you

Dan

[pax_eterna]

Might be as simple as tweaking the "Exclusive" setting in Sounds (via Control Panel) Dan....it was why I was asking after the OS, if it is W7 or W8 then this tweak could very well solve it.

Dennis

[Dan]

Yes Maybe

[cirerenrut]

I am still not used to your instant response, such a refreshing change. The system is operating Windows 7 and the machine is on.
Eric

[pax_eterna]

Okay now this is just one of those things you do to eliminate a possible cause, so there is no guarantee, however it had solved this issue for a lot of people....

As a background it is the new "give exclusive control" power Windows 7+8 gives to the audio driver service to the program/app using it. Which means that even when that program/app is no longer in use the audio is still "locked" to it. Right, the steps are:

CONTROL PANEL  >  HARDWARE + SOUND  >  SOUND (Manage  audio devices) >  PLAYBACK choose the device you want to use (usually it is the one that is "set as default" but may not be, in any case choose the one you want to edit. In your case I suspect it will be 1. Wasapi Bluetooth audio (it may even be set as your default???)

Once you have single clicked on the device (which highlights it) choose the properties box (lower right) then select ADVANCED and where it says EXCLUSIVE MODE,  uncheck the box (it is set to on by default in W7 and W8) . Also make sure the default sample rate matches the device you want to use, as this has also been known to prevent audio. This means that if the device you are using is set to 48khz, for example, but the sample rate in the Sound settings is 44khz, you will get no sound, again depending on what is set as default.

TBH, and this is a personal view only, why anyone bothers with 48khz is not only strange it also drains system resources (read CPU cycles can increase by as much as 60-70% as opposed to 44khz - which means less available CPU cycles for a second and subsequent vst) with no benefit whatsoever, seriously!! 48 is really only suitable in a purely recording audio situation. And would take too much space to explain fully here......Anyway I digress, sorry

Also follow the steps above for the RECORDING tab as well. Do it for all audio devices on the system.

Oh, and also turn off Windows Sounds ( the tab after RECORDING) and set it to no sounds. Windows Sounds are notorious for interrupting audio devices being used at the same time.

Okay try that (if you have not already ) and let us know...

[Dan]

To get very low latency, vArranger should be able to run the audio in exclusive mode.

So it is important to allow applications to use exclusive mode.

[pax_eterna]

No sorry Dan - not true! I get latency to around 5ms with NO exclusive set. That is a furphy! Much like 48khz sounds better through a PA than 44khz

And again, as per that argument, latency less than about 10 ms is not really noticeable. I choose 5ms because I "perceive" it to feel better under my fingers on the keybed. And I can

TBH I was perfectly happy with 10ms for ages until audio in Windows, hardware and apps started to improve!

[cirerenrut]

Dennis thank you for trying to me out. The first when I go into playback is that I have only got two options 1) Bluetooth hands-free Audio. 2) Realtek High Definition Audio. I pick option 1. In Properties, Advanced, I disabled Exclusive Mode. The default format WHICH I do not appear to have the ability to change is " 2 channels, 16 bit, 48000Hz (DVD Quality). It is only when I start vArranger that I get the option to select Audio out which includes Wasapi, Asio, DirectSound, and still only DirectSound worked under Bluetooth. I then decided to try Microwave synth to see if the options other than DIRECTSOUND would work and have finished up with Midi out only microwave synth ( vArranger synth, VST ) HAVE VANISHED, and the Audio out column has also disappeared.
Any thoughts.
Eric

[cirerenrut]

Dan if would like to go into my Laptop I would be very grateful.
Eric

[pax_eterna]

ummm it is really difficult without looking at your system directly (and I do not want to do that )

Re the sample rate  - it should be selectable via a little drop down arrow at the side or simple by clicking on the format itself..
Can you post a screen shot of your Sound view? The one that lists all the devices - and we can go from there....I suspect you are not quite getting what I am suggesting to you...no offence

[pax_eterna]

I think Dan has an app that you can get from him to allow access - let him sort it like that...it could take ages to do it via the "paste in a view" method, unless you can do a snippy of each view window in sequence - then I can see exactly what you are doing (or not doing )

[cirerenrut]

Dennis I will wait for Dan to go my machine, but thanks for trying to help.
Eric

[Dan]

Eric, you ve got mail

[cirerenrut]

The Quick Support screen is on the laptop.

[Dan]

The problem is : vArranger runs at 44.1 Khz

Your bluetooth sound card can only run at 48 Khz

I will try to correct this soon

[pax_eterna]

 

[Dan]

When looking at the code again, maybe it can works with ASIO4ALL
We can try again tomorrow

[cirerenrut]

Thanks Dan, Laptop is on and waiting.

Eric

[Dan]

You need to start the support program and send me your ID by email

[pax_eterna]

The problem is : vArranger runs at 44.1 Khz

Your bluetooth sound card can only run at 48 Khz

I will try to correct this soon

Doesn't vA run at whatever is set for the audio interface being used? I mean, vA generates NO sound itself does it?? It is pretty much only midi data. Ergo the issue here is that the OP has mismatched sample rates and in this case audio will never work, no matter what is set in vA ne c'est pas?

Seems to me the solution is to alter the Windows default sample rate to 48khz for all playback devices. This then may give a chance for the BT sound card to indeed work.

D

[Dan]

vArranger set the audio frequency of the interface at 44100 Hz
It's the first time I see one audio interface who works only at 48000 Hz
We have now checked with Eric, and Yes, vArranger can handle such cases using ASIO.
It will automatically convert 44100 to 48000. It is called re-sampling.

The second problem was latency. We had to add a little bit more latency.
From 6ms to 10ms.
And now Eric can play vArranger with his Bluetooth speakers.

I think he will explain why he is so happy now

[pax_eterna]

Good. Yes I was aware of "re-sampling", not ideal but it does work...uses more CPU cycles to do it, but if he is not running mega modelled vst's there should be not too many issues.

Another happy camper.......next