vArranger Forums

Dan,
I'm stunned by your answer. Evidently I have been under a complete misunderstanding about the fundamental operation of the bass note buttons and chord buttons of your software. I need to research this subject further before replying.

Hi Dan. I wasn't really complaining about the Am7 of my accordion being reported by vArranger2 as C6. I simply mentioned it for others who might notice it and who might think something was wrong. I view this only as a cosmetic issue.

I don't think I am at liberty to play a C chord button in combination with an A bass note button, as you suggest. As I explain in the text of my video, the bass note buttons and chord buttons of my accordion transmit MIDI signals on different channels, channel #2 for bass note buttons and channel #3 for the chord buttons. Also, vArranger2 in accordion mode receives bass note signals and chord signals on different channels, and of course I have configured it to receive them in the same channels that my accordion transmits them on, bass note signals on channel #2 and chord signals on channel #3. Correct me if I am wrong, but using the configuration that I describe, a signal sent on the bass note channel will not be interpreted by vArranger2 as part of a chord definition. It is for that reason that to play a minor seventh chord I use a two finger combination of chord buttons, not a combination of chord and bass note buttons.

But I am not complaining about this. Indeed, I view the ability of vArranger2 to receive signals from bass note buttons and chord buttons on different channels as an advantage. My understanding is that the people at Roland feel the same way, as indicated by the Roland accordion's default configuration using different MIDI channels for bass note buttons and chord buttons. However, this has the consequence that to play a minor seventh chord on an arranger, I must press a two finger combination of chord buttons, not a bass note button and chord button combination. I describe this in the text of the video. When playing a two finger combination of chord buttons I have no control over the exact sequence of notes (inversion) sent by the accordion to vArranger2.

Again, I am not complaining about this difference in chord identification between Am7 and C6 when playing the two finger combination of A minor and C major chord buttons. I simply mentioned it for others who might notice the same thing and think something was wrong. But I don't think anything is wrong. The two chords are enharmonic. To me, what appears on the screen of vArranger2 is only a cosmetic issue.

I agree that the FR-3 in the video is working well. Are you saying that because I said in the text of the video that my FR-3 wasn't working correctly? In the video I'm playing my wife Diane's FR-3. My FR-3 does not work correctly and it is currently on the way to California to be repaired. Hopefully when I get it back it will work just as well as Diane's.

Here is my latest step forward in my music education using automatic accompaniment with vArranger2 software. This particular accompaniment style, called "40's Big Band" works so nice it seems designed with this exact famous Glenn Miller piece in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmFQQFbGSCQ

I have compensated for the inevitable deteriorating physical condition of old age by downsizing my accordion to a lighter, kinder, more gentle model. It allows me to return to a higher, more upright sitting position with the instrument hanging more solidly from the shoulders, while at the same time not aggravating my shoulder injury. Can you believe that the FR-3 is almost ten pounds lighter?

This piece also represents my latest step forward in using minor seventh chords, which require two finger combinations on the bass side. As you can read in the text information of the video, to play a G minor seventh chord, as called for at specific places in the music, I simultaneously press the G minor and Bb major chord buttons. I do this using the #2 finger on the G minor button and the #5 finger on the Bb major chord button. Magically vArranger2 figures out the combination. Hurrah!

I have noticed that when playing the A minor seventh chord in this manner (A minor chord button plus C major chord button) vArranger2 reports a C6 chord. My goodness, what's that? According to my chord chart the Am7 and C6 chords are enharmonic (they consist of the very same notes). I suspect that vArranger2 is reporting C6 due to the particular inversion (sequence of notes) delivered by the Roland accordion.

Thank you Dan for your response. I agree that the lower sitting position is good, but because it is a change for me I'm not entirely used to it. Still, I am adapting fast and I appreciate your approval. The reason for my higher, almost standing position in the past was because the instrument is more stable and controllable when it hangs more from the shoulders. So it is typical for beginners like me to prefer it. But as many have warned me, the higher position is more stressful to the body and may eventually cause injury. So here I am.

Yes, I do use the Tyros styles more than others, but not because I know what I am talking about. I actually have very little experience with this and I admit that my choice of Tyros styles is more because of the influence of certain friends who are fanatic about that instrument. I like to joke with them and say, "See, I can play a Tyros on my accordion." But to be honest, there are so many styles to choose from and a beginner like me has to start somewhere, so why not Tyros? Who knows, perhaps eventually I will tire of them. Well that will not be a problem since I can simply download other styles.

Of course the resident styles of vArranger2 and of other keyboards are good also. Indeed, I invite anyone to give me suggestions of other styles that they feel might be more appropriate for any of the videos that I have posted. After all, I am not a real musician. At this point my use of this arranger software is still an educational experience. And I must say that a virtual arranger, like vArranger2, with its nice, easy-to-use interface, allows a person like me to use it without getting overwhelmed by advanced features. Some of my friends have purchased arranger units made by Orla and Ketron and they still haven't figured out how to use them. Even though they are more advanced accordionists, they are amazed at what I am doing on vArranger2. And, I am amazed at the high quality of music that I can produce when I consider that my playing level is still beginner/intermediate. So instead of struggling with scales and exercises, I'm having fun playing popular music that my friends and family enjoy hearing. In the process I am building up a repertoire that may one day permit me to perform to an audience.

Although I have officially recovered from my shoulder injury, I find that extensive practice still aggravates it. I find that assuming a lower sitting position helps. Still, I am managing to make some progress on my repertoire. Here's the latest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pGuR3k2ciQ

This piece does not contain a lot of variety, only one style variation change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP1RCQqNgCw

If you are correct and CTRL93 is only the last of several signals that are sent when I press a voice button, then yes, it may be possible to use individual voice buttons on the instrument to activate different features in vArranger2. The most logical feature would be to change the treble voice in vArranger2. Thus, pressing a single voice button on the accordion would simultaneously change voices on both the accordion and vArranger2. What a wonderful feature for accordionists.

Dan, you are very observant.

Yes, I noticed in the vArranger2 OPTIONS/CONTROLLERS window that when my FR-7 accordion is set to play orchestral treble voices, and whenever I press one of the orchestral voice buttons, in addition to changing the voice, the instrument sends a signal to vArranger2. Unfortunately, the very same signal is sent no matter which voice button I press. There are 14 voice buttons on the instrument, but the signal for each one is 93 on MIDI channel 1.

In the CONTROLLERS window I specified signal 93 on channel 1 to represent VARIATION UP. Thus, I am able to change two things, the treble voice on my accordion and the variation of the style on vArranger2, by pressing a single button.

Note that in my performance I use the treble voices of both my accordion and vArranger2 mixed together, and at the appropriate times I was changing the vArranger2's treble voices as well. But of course to do that I had to assign pedals on the foot pedal unit of the FR-7 to represent different voices of vArranger2. So in the performance I was pressing two controls, a button on my accordion and a pedal on my foot pedal unit, to change three things. Still, for a person like me with limited dexterity and skill, two controls are easier to press than three.

Of course because the FR-7 sends the very same signal for all of its voice buttons, application of this characteristic is limited. It is only useful for those pieces where I want a style variation to change in one direction and at the same time to change a treble voice on the accordion. It works for some of the simple pieces that I play, but for a more complex piece it might not make sense.

This reminds me of my original enquiry to you about the possibility of saving all of the definitions in the CONTROLLERS window for each song. I use this little trick in my home studio for recording a single piece, but I admit that it would be impractical to set up such song dependent definitions manually every time during a live performance. Being able to save such definitions for each song would be convenient. But of course if it is difficult for you to include that option in vArranger2 it might not be worth the trouble. Perhaps there are only a few people like me who would use it.

Leon

Here is another new addition to my performance repertoire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DV-0bHEPMU

Hello Jon,
The screen that you see is my computer monitor. Perhaps the screen looks big in the video, but it is not really very big, only 21 inches (53 cm). I position the computer monitor to demonstrate to viewers that I am using vArranger2 software.
Leon

Due to a shoulder injury I have not been able to play accordion for over a month. The following link is to my first video since recovering from my injury. It's nice to be back, but I admit that I lost some ground. Hopefully this piece will help me recover my previous skill using vArranger2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uBaqU7q8i0

In this video I try for the first time the selection of treble voices by using the Roland FR-7's pedal unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZdcLc5PBHc

Note that I am not a performing musician. I am a beginning level student. This piece is relatively easy to play. My motivation in playing with an arranger is to increase the entertainment value of pieces that are within my performance capabilities. It inspires me to improve.

Yes, I did try all three new features, VARIATION UP, VARIATION DOWN, and FILLIN.

The VARIATION UP and VARIATION DOWN work exactly as advertised, allowing me to sequence up and down through all the variations using only two pedal definitions rather than four. For some pieces where it is appropriate to sequence only in the upward direction, I can define only one pedal to change variations, thus allowing me to define other pedals for different purposes, like voice changes and ENDING.

The new FILLIN feature was a very good idea. I find that for some pieces, particularly slow/quiet ones, the use of AUTO FILLIN is not always appropriate when switching variation levels, but desirable at certain points while playing within a particular variation level. Your new FILLIN feature allows me to do exactly that by playing whatever FILLIN is appropriate for the level I happen to be playing at the time.

These seem to be valuable features for people using the Roland FR-7 accordion with its companion pedal unit, which of course has only five pedals.

Thank you Dan for these new control features. They will be especially valuable for people like me with a Roland FR-7 and its companion pedal unit that has a limited number of pedals. I like how easy it is to define pedal functions in the Controllers window.

Another example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCIqUQmG-Ng

Thank you Dan for your advice on tuning windows for best performance.
Leon

Thank you to both Dan and Lionel for encouraging me to post links to my YouTube videos as I learn vArranger2. Hopefully others will profit from my learning experience.

Here is the next video where I turn on the treble sounds of vArranger2 for the first time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARZonZqTdM

See the text description of the video for details.

Dan, I anxiously await the results of your poll about the age of vArranger users.
Leon

I am a beginning level accordionist and I am a new user of vArranger2/SD4. I have had the software only nine days. I thought it would be helpful for others to see what someone at my level can to with this wonderful software right from the start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLMS6QnU1Xs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8IE9lBzOxM

These are very simple tunes, but with the embellishment of conventional chord sequences they sound quite acceptable, at least that's what my family and friends say. I especially like the tonal quality and stereo profile of the accompaniment produced by vArranger2/SD4.

Note that in both these videos, only the accompaniment sounds are produced by vArranger2/SD4. The treble sounds are produced by the Roland accordion. My reason is simply because I am already familiar with the treble sounds on my instrument, and by using what I am already familiar with I can play more comfortably. Hence I was able to produce these videos more quickly. Of course I fully intend to take advantage of treble sounds from vArranger2/SD4 soon. Progress takes time.

I hope this demonstrates the benefit of vArranger2 even to beginning level accordionists.
Leon

Hello Lionel,
Nice to meet you. Thank you for the very detailed response. I appreciate it immensely. I now understand that copying material into the location where vArranger2 keeps it's styles when I first install the product is not just a trick that I accidentally discovered, but you actually intended for me to do that. And even more importantly, you intended for me to do it for Songs as well as Styles. The result is a user interface that I can easily customize to contain buttons that are conveniently located on the screen for any live performance. The key here is "convenience", which is an important factor under the pressure of live performance situations.

You say it even works for MIDI files! This is wonderful. If I understand you correctly, I can conveniently play one live performance by controlling the arranger auto accompaniment with the bass buttons of the accordion, and then at the click of a button play a second one against a previously recorded backing track. I will try out these various configurations very soon in order that I feel comfortable with them.

Thank you for giving me the confidence that I can freely copy as many styles, songs, and MIDI files as I wish into vArranger2\vArrangerData\Styles\StylesROM1 (within reason as you suggest) without causing instability in the software.

I regret that I do not speak French very well, and for that reason I might have realized all of this from the user manual that Dan sent me, or from the French speaking section of your forum. I do understand the user manual in principle, and I appreciate having it. Indeed, that was the final motivation for me to purchase the software. But I admit that my French is insufficient for me to pick up such details as you have given me in this message. I thank you very much for being a teacher, a very good teacher I must say.

Leon

I apologize for asking such beginner questions. I know you think I am impatient and that I am not paying attention. I did notice the "Load" button immediately above the style category buttons. I noticed it very early on. When I first open the software I see it directly above the style genre button called "Unplugged". However, it is in a section of the interface that is labeled "My Songs". So, I thought it had to do with songs, not styles. Besides, when I click on the "Load" button, a file dialog box opens, a box that is obviously looking for a file. I thought the styles would be imported as an entire group, as it is in other music software that I have used, not as individual files.

When I downloaded the PSR-S710 and Tyros-3 styles, I received a large number of styles organized in folders with various genre names, like "Ballad", "Ballroom", etc. So, common sense told me that when the software would import these styles it would do so as a group, and that the entire group would appear as an additional button along the horizontal row of style genres. So I expected to see new buttons called "PSR-S710" and "Tyros-3". Then I expected that if I clicked on the PSR-S710 button for example all the buttons would change to a new row of buttons, each one corresponding to one of the folder names, like "Ballad, "Ballroom", etc. Then I expected that if I clicked on one of them I would see the names of the style in that genre appear in the vertical column of buttons at the left of the screen.

That would correspond to how a lot of other software that I have seen works.

When I realized that your "Open" button was looking for a file, not a folder containing a group of styles, it didn't seem appropriate for loading a style. So I did not use it. I thought that using it to load a style was clearly incorrect.

Anyway, I did try it, as you suggest, and I now understand that using the "Load" button I can open an individual style.

Is that how you intended the software to work? Are you providing to open just one individual style at a time? That seems very inconvenient for trying to match various styles with a particular musical piece. Wouldn't it be better to have the imported styles visible on buttons, the same way you provide for the styles that belong to your application?

Ironically, by copying the styles into a folder as I described in my opening message to this thread, your software did produce new buttons along the horizontal row. Indeed, the following screen shot shows the screen containing two extra buttons for "Tyros-3" and "PSR-S710". The "Tyros-3" button is selected and the vertical buttons at the left of the screen show button names of some of some Tyros-3 styles. I copied only one genre, called "Swing&Jazz". I was afraid to copy too many files.

http://www.box.net/shared/2p451d2ytj

Please view as well my file structure that caused it to happen:

http://www.box.net/shared/nnz1myk8iy

I suspect that although I have discovered how to cause your software to produce some new style buttons, you may not have intended that to happen. If so, please let me know. I want to use the software properly and I do not want to invite problems. Perhaps by loading files in the manner that I have done they will not work correctly?

I suspect that when you designed this application you thought that a single "Load" button on the screen without any explanation was sufficient for anyone to use your software. However, I respectfully suggest that my confusion over how I should use it might be typical for any experienced PC user looking at your software for the first time.

Leon

All is not self evident to me. Please confirm how to use Yamaha styles. I searched the forum for threads on this subject but did not find any.

I noticed that the default styles are in the following folder on my system:

C:\User\vArranger2\vArranger2\vArrangerData\Styles\StylesROM1

This folder contains folders with names that correspond to the button names in the vArranger2 application.
(00)Unplugged
(01)Pop
....
(09)Ballroom

If I create a new folder calling it (10)PSR-S710, which has the following pathname:

C:\User\vArranger2\vArranger2\vArrangerData\Styles\StylesROM1\(10)PSR-S710

...and then run the application, I notice that a new button appears of the name PSR-S710.

When I download the PSR-S710 styles they are organized into folders of different genre categories. If I copy the folders into the folder that I just created:

C:\User\vArranger2\vArranger2\vArrangerData\Styles\StylesROM1\(10)PSR-S710

... the stylenames to not appear in the application.

However, if I copy the styles themselves (not the folders) into the folder:

C:\User\vArranger2\vArranger2\vArrangerData\Styles\StylesROM1\(10)PSR-S710

... then the stylenames appear in the application.

Is that how styles are used in vArranger2? By copying them into an appropriately named folder? Or, is there an "Open Styles" feature within the program that I have not yet discovered?

Thanks, Leon

I also thank Prado, since he is the one who actually started this thread.

Thank you Lionel for posting this thread. Like you I have been uncertain about vArranger software. I simply want to let you know that your questions have been greatly appreciated and the responses that Dan gave you were very informative to me as well.

On the Roland FR-7 accordion the pedal unit can be programmed to send the following signals.

Start/Stop
Intro
Fill Up
Fill Down
Ending

Does the vArranger2 software properly respond to these control signals sent by the Roland FR-7 accordion?
Thanks,
Leon