vArranger Forums

Dan (and everyone),

Happy Easter!

You have my sympathy.  Moving house is not the best of times.   

Barry

Wizz,

Oh Dear!!   Are you finding the headaches are getting more frequent/severe?

Barry

Eating cheese late at night has a similar effect ... (or it can cause migraine)

Barry

> (I saw in my dream)

Probably caused by indigestion!!!

Barry

Give up guys!   Dan is not going to respond any quicker (if at all) - so there is no point in nagging him!!

Just acccept that vA is not going to develop in the way that you hope - and even if you do get an update then its unlikely it will ever do what you really wanted.  Anyway - when were you ever consulted on future requirements or needs?

Somehow I keep thinking of the famous line from the old Monty Python dead parrot sketch:   "The parrot is no more", "has ceased to be", "bereft of life,  "it rests in peace" - "this is an ex-parrot"

Barry

> Dan wrote:
>I am sorry I don't have enough time actually to answer to all suppositions written here, this does not mean they are true

I no longer have any sympathy.     

If you just wrote a simple once sentence statement about progress every month or so (even 'no progress' would do)  then people would leave you alone and not start making things up.    You probably spend more time reading false statments than it would take to write a hundred true progress statments.    This has been said before by many of your "customers". 

> You need to admit to yourself that Dan has beaten us - as no amount of cajoling him is going to produce the update - or information - so save yourself some stress/time.     

I should clarify that it is not that I think an update will never happen - just that Dan will ignore us and do it in his own time (or not) and there is no point in keep asking.

Barry

You need to admit to yourself that Dan has beaten us - as no amount of cajoling him is going to produce the update - or information - so save yourself some stress/time.     

Indeed - the best solution I recommend is to be happy and practice/play your keyboard (or look for an alternative solution).

But can I wish everyone (particularly Dan) a Great Christmas and to have a Happy and Healthy New Year.

Barry

I actually agree that this forum should be reserved for people who own vA - but I can see why Dan keeps it open - it means that prospective customers can ask questions.    Unfortunately it also means there is a continuous stream of "chancers" (who BTW keep  us hugely entertained with their wild claims).   

Note: We haven't yet seen to one which says:   I am a loyal vA musician who has lost all his equipment in a strange city when travelling the world for gigging purposes.   I have a very important gig tonight - so please send me $X000 to purchase more equipment and also another vA licence so that I can use it.

Anyway:  I think there should just be a contact email address for prospectve customers and then put a general block on the forum.

Barry

I think patience is required - even if its possibly not deserved and I don't think hassling Dan actually helps.    Just rememeber the reality is that Dan is a one man band and if he gets enough hassle he could just say "to hell with it" and walk away - and then you would be, as we say in England, "Up the creek without a paddle!". 

I do not, for any reason, believe Dan to be dishonest or deliberately misleading people - and I have said many times that vA is great - if not necessarily delivering what users want. 

When I was working I managed software development teams for many years (and was a programmer myself at one time in my career) - so I feel I recognise the problem.    In my experience programmers do not know where or when  to stop - its always "Just one more little addition - it won't take long!".   But the problem is that something always turns up that needs fixing, or it suggest a new direction of development.     The only way out of this problem is a good plan with a recognised end point.   This I do feel has been a problem with vA for many years and is vA's fundamental weakness.     Many of us have been saying for ages that there should be a list of development aims which we, the users, feel are required to make a better program.   But Dan steadfastly ignores this to the point I actually sometimes think he must have Doctorate in Ignoring things - as that seems to be his speciality and he seems very good at it :-).  Personally I sometimes feel that vA is developed for Dan's own gigging requirements - and us customers happen to fund it .   So plans, with firm deliverables, are the only way forward, in my opinion - but Dan has to want to do this - and so far he has firmly resisted.

So - again I suggest that you give Dan breathing space to finish his task.   vA does work very reiliably as Agaton states (although not to my taste) and we all knew what we bought into - so cannot complain if we want something different.   Although there was no trial version (a mistake in my view) - we all had the option to ask for a refund if it did not do what we wanted.  So the only legitimate reason we can want more developments is because we want to see vA get better and prosper.   I do, however believe that the annual update fee should be abolished and refunded if people have not received anything.   It should be run something like Cubase:  a new version comes out every 2 years and you pay an update charge for the new version.

Barry

Dan,

Thanks for your comments - that was brilliant and is exacly all the feedback that is required in my opinion.   Sorry to hear about your DSP problems - one of the joys of programming.

Regards
Barry

Dan,

I too am pleased to hear that - but you really must get better at keeping your customers informed.  As you have discovered:  if you don't tell people what is happening then they will make it up themselves - and what they make up is almost certainly worse than the truth.

Whats is wrong with you supplying a monthly update on the forum just giving a once sentence statement of what is happening - particularly important if you have promised something but you have not been able to deliver for some reason.

Its not a lot to ask and will both make your customers happy and will also have the effect of not putting off potential customers because they see discontent on the forum.

Barry

Just for info - I note you say you are using the USB 96 driver .  So are you running at 96khz - if so then this will put an an extra unnecesary load on your computer.   44.1khz is more than adequate for normal use.

Barry

Hi 

I don't claim to be a an expert on this - I just plug it all in and use it... 

But the general rule is to always use the ASIO driver that comes with your audio interface.   ASIO4ALL is a very helpful compromise - but it is definately not a substitue for ASIO.   As I understand it - its just a software wrapper over the Windows audio drivers - whereas ASIO drivers are low latency drivers specially written by the manufacturer of the audio interface (who know it best) to get close to the operating system.

If you are experiencing crackling sounds then look at whether you have set the latency too low  (i.e. try setting to a really high number and see if the problem goes away - if it does then reduce it slowly).   If it happens when you put the system under load (i.e. multi instruments) then query whether your CPU is fast enough or whether you have enough memory or whether you are running other unnecesary programs in the background (that you may not know of).  Try switching the network off.

Here is an article about ASIO4ALL: https://www.theaudioblog.org/post/should-i-use-asio4all

Here is an article on optimising your audio interface:  https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/optimising-latency-pc-audio-interface

Here is a tool for measuring your audio latency:  https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Here is document on how to totally tune your computer for audio:  https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

Anyway - I hope it helps - good Luck!!

Barry

[Today 12:12:51]  >vArranger is still being improved. I am about to release a new version

Yes some time soon - thats what Dan said on 22nd Aug 2019    and then again "within a month" in July 2021. 

vA is capable of excellent results and some people swear by it.  I bought my copy of vA around 2014 and find some of the functionality, and lack of development, very frustrating - so my view is that if vA does what you want now then go ahead and buy it (would I?) .   If you are relying on new facilities coming along at regular intervals - then think carefully.     

The arguments is often made that vA is open ended, whereas a hardware arranger is closed and cannot be further developed.  This is irrelevent!  If Dan gets run over by a bus, or decides to enjoy a new life style (maybe unfortunately as a result of getting run over by a bus), and there is a new version of Windows (or you lose your dongle) which means that vA wont run - then you ae stuffed!    A hardware arranger may age  a bit - but most are pretty good these days and very reliable -and it will still work even if the manufacturer goes bust.

Be realistic about the costs as by the time you add together all the other bits and pieces you need (including sound addons) it  is not a cheap solution.  I also suggest you read the comments on the forum by others and then decide.

Good luck!

Barry

Well - there you go..

Somebody thinks about buying a copy of vArranger (see todays post) and suddenly Dan magically re-appears.. - so I guess he is still alive after all.      Funny how support is timely under those circumstances...

So where are we with this update?   

Its now over 2 years since it was announced (and people were asked to pay annual update fees) and 2 months since we were told that it would be available within a month.     

So has it been released and I have somehow missed the announcement - or is it another bit of vA vaporware.    Its a bit worrying how many people are now selling their copy of vA and I am beginning to wonder whether they know something I don't.

So is there actually any development going on - or are we just being "strung along".

Barry

I have a feeling that the Korg Micro arranger is a small key version of one of the normal Korg arranger keyboards (maybe PA60)  and thus takes normal Korg Styles .  I was looking at one several years ago to add styles to my Yamaha Synth  (didn't buy it).

"What's happening with vArranger??? Could you kindly communicate with us?"

YES:  This is the no 1 unanswered question on both the English and French forums.     

It was 22nd Aug 2019 that Dan said he was working on new version and please pay a 50Euros annual update fee.   It was on 5th Nov 2019 that Dan said: "A new version will come by the end of the month, and I will create a newsletter for it, to send it to all the subscribers".

So what is going on:  Has this update now been released?  or Is this program now actually defunct?     Is Dan actually OK - I hope he hasn't been ill?     

Everyone else on the planet seems to have worked from home and have more time on their hands than they know what to do with - so its a bit surprising that vA development seems to have stalled.   

I really hope everything is OK - but a short statement would be better than all this silence ..

Barry

Many thanks Wizz - much appreciated.  Also thanks Freakman for the link - I'll have look.

Regards
Barry

Whizz,

I note you say you are using the Korg Triton VST/INS file.        I have been unsuccessfuly looking for the INS file for this for some time - so is there any chance you could please attach it to the forum.

Thanks very much.

Barry

Sorry - I'm slightly confused by this - isn't this all in the manual?

Why pay for it - just search  the web and get a free copy .... to hell with the amount of work that went into it ... 

If Dan is right and this copy of vA is illegal - then I have to congratulate the nerve (and cheek) of the individual for being so blatant.   

As a general rule I have the lowest regard for people who steal computer programs.  As an ex-professional computer programmer I know exactly how much effort (days, weeks, months, vA=years)  will have gone into creating them and its not right that the authors do not receive payment for their hard work.    People wouldn't walk into a car showroom and steal a car (well maybe they would) and expect to get away with it - yet I constantly see comments across the web of people asking if anyone knows of a cracked version of various programs.   Frankly I really hope that these programs do indeed have the malware installed that cracked programs are often reputed to have - the damage is indeed well deserved.

I don't know if this is relevent or even works outside Cubase - but Steinberg have an unofficial multiclient asio driver here:-

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48

Thanks Claudio for the suggestion - its much appreciated.   I had seen some of them before but I am slightly reluctant to impement any changes to my system until I have a better idea what is causing the problem in the first place.     Basically two programs from a single supplier suddently stop working at exactly the same time and no other programs on the computer seem to have been affected.   Windows Defender says there is nothing wrong with them and nothing on computer has been changed or otherwise altered (i.e. no Windows updates - nothing).  Very strange...

But I do have an update in that I removed the shortcut on the desktop that points to vA and recreated it.   When I click on the shortcut vA now, sort of, fires up - but tells me that I need to install a newer version of vArrangerSysnth.exe and obviously won't go any further.   

So are these programs time limited in some way?

Something odd is going on:   I ran vA yesteday afternoon with no problems.    Today I tried running it and I get the same RED labelled "This app has been blocked for your protection"   error message as sweetbb received above.   I scanned it for viruses with Windows Defender and it said there was no problem.

Not to worry I  thought - maybe its got corrupted - I will just re-copy it from my master copy in my archive and all will be well.   

So I copied both vArranger2.exe and vArrangerSynth.exe (checking that both were the same length and date as the troubelsome copy)  to their working location.    I now ran vArrangersynth.exe first and oddly got the very same "This app has been blocked for your protection" message as I did with vArranger2.exe itself earlier today - and also when I ran the newly replaced vArranger2.exe  - it too gives the RED "This app has been blocked for your protection" message.   

Now one of them giving the message is odd - but both of them giving it is very strange and suspicious behavioir.  Particularly as no other progam on the computer seems to be affected and work normally. 

Here is the information about the files (V1.19)  vArranger2.exe length is 1,129KB and vArrangerSynth.exe is 9,791KB .  I have checked Windows update and no new files have been added by Microsoft for about 10 days.     Simularly I have made no changes to the system since I last used vA yesterday.

So - any suggestions would be gratefully received please - its almost like there is some sort of time limit placed on the files.

Barry

> Every one will want to test something else in vArranger, and the limited demo will not really change anything

With my suggestion they would be able to have access to all the availble facilities of vA (including VSTs) - what they would not be able to do is load or save any new styles or change the tempo - just have one or two basic pre-built in styles at a fixed tempo.  Its got to be a 1,000,000% better than what is present at the moment.   The point was that it should be easy to implement and not require having to maintain separate code for a full and demo version.

And just to clarrify gunnar's comments - I am not saying disable save/load (as that can be hacked and re-enabled) - I am suggesting removing all related code completely from the demo version.

Barry

No response as usual ...

This was a practical and positive suggestion.   So I actually don't know why I am surprised - given the pevious track record of ignoring people on this forum.

I agree with Bluebeat - that a demo version is very desirable - but appreciate that a demo version is at risk of being 'hacked'.   I have been thinking about how this may be achieved without a great deal of work on Dan's part (I was a programmer after all) and I would like to make a practical suggestion.   

The idea is to obviously create 2 versions:

- Version 1) - the normal full version that is distributed as now
- Version 2) - a demo crippleware version which even if it were hacked would not result in a usuable full version.   

So what I suggest is that the demo version should come with (say) 2 styles already pre-installed.    That the LOAD and SAVE style reading code is not actually present inside the program (i.e. I don't just mean disabled - I mean not physically there) and that the TEMPO code is similarly also not present (i.e. so that vA can only run at speed of the preset demo styles.

Programmer speak:  How can this be achieved easily?   The answer is I do not know the vA code so there may be some problem with this - but I would have thought that both versions could use the same code (so Dan only has to maintain one version) but use some sort of conditional compilation switches which most compilers allow.   Switching ON the 'demo mode' compile switch when Dan compiles it produces the demo version by effectively bypassing (i.e. not compiling) the LOAD/SAVE and TEMPO code - switching the demo mode compile switch OFF generates the full version.

I think this would allow a demo version which is usable enough to allow people to decide whether they wanted to buy - but is safe from abuse.   It doesn't even need to be time limited as if somebody only ever plays withe one style (i.e. the demo one) - then good luck to them - enjoy it.

Anyway - just a thought for debate.

> Registration memories are unlimited (they are called song in vA), just have one folder per song and add whatever you want, you name them 1,2,3, ...... and with a foot controller or keyboard shortcuts before or after scrolling through them. like any arranger

No its not.  Song mode is a means of using multiple songs one after the other.      As I was an advocate of this way of working - I actually wrote instructions in a forum thread several years ago on how to use song mode as a type of  registration memory because of the lack of real registration memory.    But in the end I gave up using it because it really didn't work when you change in the middle of a song - which is what registration memory is really for.   I found that that there was an audible delay as vA brought in new styles and voices and it really was not satisfactory.  There were other problems that I have, unfortunately, long since forgotten.   Its possible that things have been improved - but frankly I find it very clunky.    The other issue is the way that voices are selected and having to go to the flog of creating specific user voices whenever you want to layer 2 or more sounds which adds to the complexity - and this I REALLY hate..

> * it does not suffer from obsolescence being an "open" system

This is not the definition of an open system - I haven't seen copies of the source code recently - so can I have a copy please  .    If, heaven forbid, Dan gets run over by a bus  or decides to pack it because of the whingeing from his customers then vA users are stuck.   Under those circumstances  if Microsoft decides to change the operating system and it makea vA unusable - then you are really stuck.  A hardware arranger would still work even if the maufacturer goes bust.   Note: I am not saying here that one soilution is better than any other.

Barry

Hi,

This may help you decide.  vA is very good but in my humble opinion its a bit of a fiddle in comparison to a hardware arranger.  Its main strength is its abiliy to read styles from multiple keyboard manufacturere directly - but you will still need to do a bit of work to make them sound the same as they might do on the styles manuafacturers keyboard.   But I always ask what is the point of having 100,000 syles if you still cannot find the one you want.  As you say the cost it quite high for the original vA program and the issue then becomes that you have to add something to create sounds.    It comes wth basic sound creation. - but most people seem to want something better.   There are multiple ways: you can use sound modules (such as the Ketron SD 1000, Roland Intregra 7 etc.  note: vA supposts INS files); you can use VSTs or you can buy sound banks from Dan that work directly with vA.   I don't have the latter but the general view seems to be positive - although it seems that each style type needs its own sound bank - and they seem expensive.  So if you add the program + keyboards + computer + sound creator - then the cost begins to grow.    In my opinion the biggest stumbling block for me is lack or registration memory as you would normally find on even the most basic keyboard (I have been asking for it for 7 years) and this makes it difficult (for me) to use.

There are lots of people on this forum who seem to get great results with vA and seem very happy - then, as you would expect, there are others who want it to work more like a hardware arranger keyboard and get frustrated with missing features.   My biggest surprise is that a number of people seem to have forgotten that vA is designed as a real time arranger for live playing and seem to want it to work like a backing track creator (so use Band in a Box)....

If you decide to buy it then Dan will provide a refund if you are not happy - but my advice is to make sure you REALLY try it out and not just superficially toy with it.

I hope this helps

Barry

I had a  CVP709  Clavinova and that facility has been available for years.    It was a very useful way of providing some sort of 'expression' to the accompaniment part.   Maybe its even availble on Tyros - I haven't checked.

Another useful similar facility that I once saw demonstrated on the lowest member of a range of Yamaha keyboards (and the Yamaha demonstrator said he wished it was also on the more expensive model) was a single knob that you turned and it increasingly added more voices to the style as you turned it.  It was a very simple way to simplfy style playback sound density.

Barry

Dan wrote - "For now, the little numbers are not very interesting, as they are only minor builds"

What difference, or effort, does it take to write ALL the numbers - it may not seem to make a difference - but people feel they want to know.   

I'm actually beggining to feel how my wife must feel when she wants me to mow the lawn - nag! nag! nag!   

Barry

garciarob -

Very nice indeed - I greatly enjoyed it.  Good sounds and nice arrangememt!

Barry

Argh!!   Dan - but which new version  - PLEASE specify the version number because many of us are confused as to which version you are talking about when you mention 'new version'.   

It really isn't a big deal to add a version number ...   it goes like this 'new version (2.16)'  - see!! - thats not hard is it!!

Barry

I agree with what I suspect Bluebeat is sort of hinting ...

I'm getting really frustrated (maybe its lock down fever) - but every time a 'new version' is mentioned - nobody ever says what the new version actually is.       

The use of the phrase 'new' is the absolute the road to hell - whether its computer programs or TV programs.   So is this the 'new version' or the new 'new version' or maybe the new 'new new version' etc.

So please - when a version is being referred to can we just call it version (e.g.) 2.3.7 or whatever it is now- then there is no room for ambiguity

Barry

Easter Greetings!   

See attached  - keep safe!

Barry

Dan,

Can suggest that the title of this thread is changed to 'VARRANGER DEMO - THERE IS NO DEMO AVAILABLE - SO PLEASE DO NOT KEEP ASKING!'

Barry

Bluebeat,

I know you do not agree and I am sorry about that - but it will definately not take 5 minutes for Dan to develop and test a system of authorisation similar to that used by Waves (which I hate by the way!!). 

We cannot keep criticising Dan for not delivering facilities on vA and then ask him to go off at a tangent to develop a new authorisation system that must be a low priority.  I have been a member of this forum for about 8 years and cannot recall anyone else getting upset about this authorisation system.   I think you are mixing 'WANT' and 'NEED'.

Barry

I agree with Dan.   The solution has proved to be quite robust and there is absolutely no reason to change it at all.   If Dan is prepared to be flexible when somebody has a problem then there is no reason for concern - and certainly not make any program changes.

Barry

Hi,

I hope you are all well in these troubled times..

I came across this real time midi controller company and I thought it may be of interest to some of you (I'm sure many of you are already aware - but I'd never heard of them).  They look really interesting for using multiple controllers at the same time when you are lacking ports:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=183&v=CwG-4xpEli8&feature=emb_logo

and https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php

I hope its of use to somebody - Keep safe!

Barry

Bluebeat,

I agree with Dan.   We (you and I ) critisise him heavily for not getting some of the problems and key developments with vA sorted in a meaningful time.  Yet here you are asking him to spend valuable development time doing something almost specifically for you( as 99+% of vA users do not have and will never have this requirement). 

Sorry - in my humble opinion you should either find a plan B to fix your problem or just live with it.    If there is a bug with BIB then I would suggest you ask them to fix it as Dan implies.

Barry

Dan wrote..

Yes, can be done, but...
Casio seems to have many formats. The new one seems to be AC7
The question is does those styles worth the hard work?

Dan - don't be ridiculouus and even think about going off at a tangent and look to putting huge amounts of development resource into supporting Casio styles.  Its not even conceivable that there are not suitable styles available in all the other style formas vA supports.   

You are already getting a LOT of criticism because more important basic facilities (like Registration memory in my opinion) are not being developed and usability issues are not being fixed.    Sorry - but you are not gong to get more sales by having Casio styles being playable.     You really do need to stop this being a part time hobby (thus the reason there is no development plan that anyone can detect) and get to realise that people have spent a lot of money - and have a right to some decent professional support.

Barry

It is true that I was under the impression that updates were free for life.   But then you find lots of suppliers really seem to assume that 'life' means the life of the managing directors pet mouse - and suddenly you when you dig deeper you discover that life does not mean the purchaser's  life.  For example TomTom had map "updates for life" and they now define 'life' as the useful life of the device - i.e. until they think it should be changed.  I have come across lots of other companies that do the same thing.   Another more sarcastic example is in the UK where you can get a life sentence for murder - but it is likely defined as 30 years in prison and you get out after 15 for good behaviour.

Anyway - I actually have no problem that after a fixed 'guarantee' time then you have to pay for updates  - and that 50 EU is not an unreasonable amount.    But what I do have a problem with is the vapourware approach that vA updates seem to suffer from.    If you don't pay for updates (i.e. free for life or even 10 years) and nothing happens then it is just very annoying and you just have to accept it (i.e. as now).  But if it is defined that there is a fixed price for annual updates - then this implies some sort of committent to deliver something - and in a reasonable time -  and frankly, based on previous experience, I am not at convinced that this will ever happen.    But I guess that as long as you can pay a one off  price to get a known (i.e. next) level of update - then it does not matter if the vapourware philosophy is continued with.  You can see what's available and make the choice to pay or not.  Although what has not been discussed is if you decide to miss several updates – then how much will it cost when you do eventually decide to buy one.

My biggest concern, actually, is that the views and needs of the customer base, in general, seem to be ignored.  There seems to be no known design philosophy for the future development of vA and there is certainly no indication from Dan what he is actually working on.  Just that it will be "really exciting when you get it".  It never is for me!   

I just simply want a really good arranger program that is a fantastic substitute for a hardware arranger (despite what some people think – vA is definitely not).   I do not want yet another VST host and I certainly do not want yet another Band in a Box substitute or means to make backing tracks.    Unfortunately it seems to me to be what  vA is actually turning into for some people.

When people started saying a couple of years ago that they were happy to pay for specific bits of vA update work to be done – I just knew it would open this very Pandora's box.

Barry

The answer to the question above multiple times -'Can you please send me this version too?' seems to be 'OK'   

So what happened to 50 Euros for getting updates?   

Do some people get them free and other have to pay?   If so how do you get on teh free list?

I'm totally confused.

Barry

Dan

Thanks - thats actualy cleared it up - a new nominal  payment for a new version (as long as we know whats in it) - is not unreasonable.

A Happy Christmas and Great New Year to you (and everyone)

Barry

What is actually is in the new version please - that would be useful information?    If we have to pay - then it would be nice to know what we will get.

In all honestly - I am now totally confused.  I used to ask for the latest version every 9 months of so - but now we have this voluntary charging mechanism.    So am I still allowed to request it like I have for the last 6 years - or do I now have to pay if I want it.

Thanks
Barry

What no positive response at all - so does this mean that people are not seeing any beneifit?

If people had found it useful then I had thought about joining - but now I'm not so sure ....

Barry

Hi,

I'm curious to know how this is working out.    So have the people who subscribed their 50Euros pa received useful results.

Ta
Barry

Hi,

In principle I have no problem with paying even a yearly update charge.    But lets be clear - we have to have some way of knowing what we will get for the money. 

In particular vA seems to have drifted away from the concept of being a real time arranger keyboard replacement into something which, judging by some people's requirements, is more akin to a glorified backing track creator.   Its nice that vA allows you create all manner of midifiles and backing tracks that some people use it for - but please don't let it lose its primary purpose and add missing things such as registrtaion menu, style auditiong, and the real time stuff etc.

This is a great program - but with a bit of focus it could be even greater.

Barry

HERE WE GO AGAIN  ...

Dan just ignores us all ...

This is is pretty rubbish support - I have actually received several private emails over the years by vA users that are fairly annoyed by this attitude.

Its not rocket science...

Barry

Sun,

I think you need to let Dan answer himself...

You (Dan) said:
What I have understood : Changes will come as usual from times to times for all users ... but ...
... for those who are too eager to wait for next official and formal delivery, they have to subscribe to get INTERMEDIATE releases...
-
Whereas if you read mine I said:
There is rarely such a thing as a new full version as far as I can recall - and many people, including me, just say to you "can I have the latest version?"  (either via email or on the forum) whenever we want them - and you just send it without question.   

These 2 statements are in direct disagreement and it needs clarrifying by Dan - coz I after 6 years of owning vA - I don't know the answer.  Are we saying that we can no longer have the latest update like we previously did without paying?

As far as I can see - the only jutification for paying 50Euros in advance is to know what we will be getting - because based on previous experience there is no discernible logic as to what gets developed next...

Barry

Dan,

Your comments do not make sense - unless I have misunderstood.

There is rarely such a thing as a new full version as far as I can recall - and many people, including me, just say to you "can I have the latest version?"  (either via email or on the forum) whenever we want them - and you just send it without question.   

So are you now  saying that these previously free intermediate updates are now chargeable and that if we don't pay then we have wait for major updates.   As far as I can see the only reason to want to pay for these intermediate updates is if you know what is coming in advance.   Actually have no issue with payment at all as long as it is clear what we are getting.

I totally confused (as usual - so nothing new there then!) - so can you please clarrify what we would get for our 50Euros.

Thnaks
Barry

Dan,

If I thought that vArranger would improve meaningfully then I too would be willing (not sure thats really quite correct) to pay for the privilege. But we basically have no way of knowing what it is that you are doing or, indeed, whether you are doing anything at all in development terms.   

I don't believe it would correct for people to pay you 50 Euros without the knowledge as to whether they will get anything for it.  Or, alternatively, whether it will be completely irrelevent to them.   Its somewhat akin to randomly buying a ticket for a concert - but not knowing who (if indeed anyone) is playing - or whether it will be jazz, pop, or classical.

I think its up to you to prove that you can be trusted to do the right thing here.   This is not a hobby any more - people have paid large amounts of money so have a right to expect a return on their investment. 

So publish a list of plans for the next 12 months and allow people to decide whether to contribute.   If not - then I personally wouldn't touch it with a bargepool.

Barry

Hi,

I have mixed feelings about this charge.   In principle its acceptable if something useful will be delivered.   The problem I have is that I no longer trust Dan to do the right thing by his customers.   He is extremely insulting to his customers in that he just ignores many of their requests for new or amended features - whether they are made on the web site or via private mail - and this is despte constant reminders by many people.    Unless, of course, it looks like he might sell another new licence when he is very helpul!

vArranger is missing some vital features (like registration memory) - and despite several of us asking for this - nothing ever happens and, indeed, there is no hint as to whether it will ever happen in most of lifetimes  (i.e. global warning might get us all first!).   

If there were some agreed plan as to what the charge would used for then it might be acceptable.   But if the charge is going to be used at the whim of Dan then its pointless.

So - if there were a published Project Plan then "possibly".   If not - forget it!

Barry

I'm curious - why would you need to use vA when you have a fantastic instrument like the Wersi OAX1.   I thought that the Wersi actually did style conversion from other manufacturers as standard - or is that a different model.

Barry

Dan,

It is now 5 months since I first created this thread and you have not directly answered my original question yet - just tinkered around the edges like some politician.

This is frankly disrespectful

Barry

1: Yamaha MOXF 8 and vArranger2:
- Can I play MOXF performances (voices + arpeggios) from vArranger2 ?
- If I buy a sample pack (styles + voices) for PRS-S775, can I use the voices from the packs ? (if yes, the voices sound like I play on a PRS-S775 ?)

Not sure what you mean - so clarrify.  If you mean buy Yamaha sample packs which include sounds that would load into a PRS-S775 then the styles should work (but are likely to require adjustment) - the sounds almost certainly not as vA has no way to load the Yamaha sounds.   vA can sound great - but it is unlikely to sound like a PRS-S775 unless you are using an PRS-S775 to create the sound.  So don't naively assume that if you buy vA you will have a cheap PRS-S775.  One of vA's bigest faults is the lack of registration memory.

2-Free upgrade and support ?
Free upgrade currently yes - but some misguided individuals on the forum keep naively suggesting that Dan should charge for updates to get some of the missing facilities added.    I really hope he is not thinking about this.

If you have a problem with getting vA working then Dan will fix it fairly quickly - but if you have an issue with the way tha vA works and its functionality - then you are likely to get ignored.

If you buy - then test it thorougly to see if it really does what you want.

Barry

Yes - I agree with this.    I went to Notra Dame about 3 years ago and it was a very beautiful and special place.      My condolances to the French people and all those that care.    Hopefully it will literally arise from the ashes even better than before.

Barry

Hi Dan,

Thanks - thats much appreciated.  I wasn't sure what he was asking me.

Regards
Barry

ElTyros,

My appologies - but I don't speak very good French - so I had to resort to putting your message  through' Google Translate' and the translation left me totally confused as to what you wanted me to to do.     

So if Dan could please provide me with a brief translation of the relevent bits then that would be much appreciated please.

Thanks
Barry

Hi Dan,

Thanks for replying - much appreciated. 

>The buttons in the MY SOUNDS bar are loading a LEFT or RIGHT full preset, that set all the RIGHTS and LEFTS tracks
>I don't see them to handle only volumes of tracks when they can actually handle a lot more (program changes, pan, reverb etc...)

But this is where I think the problem is.   If you have combination sounds (i.e. several sounds mixed together and treated as one sound 'item') then saving the sound as a user sound makes complete sense - as you say.

But the problem comes if you use simple sounds (i.e. one voice sounds)  - e.g. piano, trombone, guitar, strings - then the whole user sound saving mechanism is complete overkill and is extremely frustrating.   I will try to give you a simple example and I really don't know how to solve this without unnecessarily resorting to user sounds.

SO -  You have a style with 4 sections A, B, C, D - each of which gets increasingly 'busy'/louder as it moves along - and that you want to complement this with a simple left hand string backing sound.  Obviously the volume of this string backing will need to get louder as the song moves through the increasingly busy/louder style sections.  There is no simple way, I know of, of automatically balancing the string volume against the increasingly busy backing as you move through the song without using user sounds. 

The problem is:  You move the string sound (i.e. 'Strings Ens' from the SD1000) located in Left 1 into the sound bar and adjust its volume using the Left 1 volume slider.  This is fine and you can get the volume to how you want it.  However, the next time you click that sound in the sound bar - the volume goes back to 100%.     IF, somehow, the sound bar actually remembered the volume of Left 1 (in this case) - then you could either use the 'Link' facility to have different versions of 'Strings Ens' each with a different volume level of Left 1 - or you could adjust it manually. Thus - the former would allow automatic increased volumes of the backing string sound as you moved through the style sections.     

Unfortunately the only way I know of solving this problem is to save the 'Strings Ens' sound multiple times as a user sound each with a different volume of the general LEFT volume and then insert these into the sound bar.   The problem with this is that it is unnecessarily complicated;  results in a large number of similar user sounds being stored (e.g. StringsEnsVol10%,   StringsEnsVol20%, StringsEnsVol30%, StringsEnsVol40%, StringsEnsVol50%, StringsEnsVol60%, StringsEnsVol70%, StringsEnsVol80%,  etc. - [OK - I'm exaggerating for effect!]);  and means that if you want to tweak the volume you have to resave the user sound yet again.   

Its possible that my proposed solution isn't the best one or even workable.   But what I think you should be doing is to add some sort of simple mechanism that will allow simple (one sound) sounds to be used and have their volumes adjusted using the main panel without having to go through so many hoops to get it to work.  Having the Left 1-3 and Right 1-4 volumes returning to 100% automatically always feels like some sort of bug to me (but I know it isn't).

Finally I won't make any specific comments on Bluebeat's post, although I do agree with a lot of what he says.  However, what I will say is that I too am on your side - as I think vArranger is a great program with a lot of future potential - but some of the usability basics really need ironing out.

Barry

Je soutiendrais cela aussi (je m'excuse si mon français est incorrect!).

Barry

2 responses:

1) Charging for updates will not make anything any quicker - when you eventually get them (if you do) it just costs more.  No - I do not agree with paying for extra facilities which ought to have been included in the first place.  This is a 350 Euro program - not a cheap knock up.   Even the FULL professional version of Cubase is not THAT much more expensive at 550 Euros and look what it does in comparison.   If it had Cubases range of facilities and sophistication then additions would be right to cost more.   Also I do not belive Dan adjusts his time wisely.   It may be fun to decode the file structure of every style format on the planet - but did we actually need them all up front when there are more imprortant basic things to be done to improve the usability of the program.   For goodness sake Techics stopped making arrangers 20 years ago.

2) I well know how much software development actually costs as I was a professional programmer for 20 years (and wrote, and sold, music software for fun).  What I suggested to Dan cannot be that big a job - I can almost visualise the code!   Its whether he wants to do it or not.      What is unacceptable is to just ignore your customers - its the worst way to treat people as it says to them: "I think you are irrelevent and I cannot be bothered" .

Barry

Dear Lakere,

Many thanks for your support - I have no idea why Dan continues to insult his customers in this way.   He clearly doesn't seem to understand, or care, that potential customers who view this forum can see his bad attitude (around 500 views of this thread alone).   And if I was one of them thinking about buying such an expensive piece of software - then maybe it would make me rethink it  (maybe I wish I had!).

I have said from the very beginning that if I have somehow misunderstood how sound volume saving works even after 6 years of use - then could somebody please correct me.   I am completely baffled as to why Dan is wedded to the current way of saving sound volumes (i.e. as individual user sounds with specific set volumes) and the fact that you cannot set the volume of a simple sound using a volume slider and have it restored to what it was when you saved it.  In any other piece of software this would be regarded as a serious bug - but in vA its clearly considered to be a plus.

If Dan had no intention of answering then why not just say: "stupid suggestion, go away!".  All that happens is that it makes his customers more annoyed - and, remember, we do talk about our experiences to our musical friends  (or potential customers as they are otherwise known as)!   

Poor customer service!

Barry

Dan,

Another 2 weeks have gone by and STILL you have not answered my request...

This is not an unreasonable request and would be easy to implement - with no impact at all on the way that vA works now - but would have a huge impact on usability. 

Not being able to load a sound with the volume with which it was stored is a serious issue and having to save it as a new user sound every time you change its startup volume in order to do this is frankly nuts!

You may not think this is important - but I have spoken to other users of vA who think it IS a problem and I know of  2 people who have sold their copy of VA largely because of this annoyance and related issues.

Barry

Come on Dan - you have not yet answered my specific request - so please don't fall back to your old ways of ignorning messages - .

My suggestion was sensible and practical; cannot be that difficult to implement;  will simplify some working practices and will not conflict with the current way of doing things.

Please ...

Barry

Hi Dan,

Have you ever thought of becoming a politician (I hear some guys with yellow jackets say there might be a vacancy at the Elysee Palace soon) ? 

As, unfortunately,  you always seem to answer a different question to the one I ask...

In this case, I plan to improve the transition between songs, so it will be as smooth as possible

Yes - yet again I completely approve of what you are saying!     

But how about answering my original question?   I asked whether it would please be possible to have the facility to 'optionally' be able to save the current volume settings of Right 1-4 (or Left1-3) in the sound bar - such that when that sound is loaded its volume is initialised to those settings.  This is rather than having to save user sounds every time.     I really don't see that this is a big thing to do and does not interfere in any way with the way vA works - but it does open up an easier and cleaner way of working. 

Please???     I am sure you would not want to disappoint an Englishman who is already completely depressed by his idiotic and incompetent (so called)  politicians who after nearly 3 years of (so called) negotiating cannot work out how they will handle Brexit (if indeed they still want to).    You wouldn't be THAT cruel ...

Thanks
Barry

Hi Dan,

Happy New Year!

> I don't think right click is a nice solution while playing live.
> Having tons of saved sounds is not a problem for the computer. The only problem is that they take too much place on the list
> Maybe, a simple right click on a sound and HIDE should be a better solution to this need?

Thanks for the reply - I agree that being able to hide the excess of user voices is desirable - but it doesn't solve my problem at all...

NOTE: I don't use VSTs in the vA environment - so the following comments are related purely to the use of the SD1000, SD2:-

I agree with you that vA has great capability for live playing.    But where I think it is not so good is when you reload the song to start playing, as there are too many potential things that need adjusting before you start playing that could lead to something vital being overlooked.  In my opinion, you should ALWAYS be able to load exactly what you stored when you set up a song in the first place, as leaving something to chance (particularly when gigging [I Don't]) is asking for trouble.   

I have mentioned the issues many times before - so there is no point in covering the same old ground in detail again - but I (and others) do feel vA fails to store all it should in the basic song structure.

HOWEVER:  How I started this thread is that my biggest complaint is about settings of sounds at song startup.  I feel its a very odd design decision of having to always save sounds/voices as USER sounds/voices for normal working.   I agree with you that 'Having tons of saved sounds is not a problem for the computer' - but  just because you can store a sound - it doesn't mean you should.    I really don't understand - and have never have understood - why it is not possible to be able to pick some basic sounds and a style; save it to a SONG - and just recover it later by loading the song and pressing 'START' .   

But unless you are prepared to accept a less than ideal sound balance (sometimes settings apparently bizarrely based on what the previous song settings were [I have never nailed THAT down'!!]); or be prepared to change the balance manually whilst you are playing; or save the sounds first as user sounds - then this is not possible with vA.   But why not - it is a really obvious thing to want to do?

Here is what I would like to be able to do using an example:  Say we want 4 basic right hand SD1000 (or SD2) sounds to be saved in the RIGHT MY SOUNDS soundbar:  Trumpet, Saxophone, Piano, Acoustic Guitar.  So there ought to be a simple way to be able to balance the volume of these 4 individual instruments against one another without having to do it manually when playing unless required - or by having to save each of these simple (single) sounds as USER Sounds (just so their volumes are set up initially???).  So, here is I how I would suggest it could be done:-.

1) Select 'RIGHT 1'
2) Select and add Trumpet  (in 'RIGHT 1') to the 'MY SOUNDS' Right Sound bar:
3) Adjust the volume of 'RIGHT 1' to that required at song loading  (i.e. to get the correct volume balance between the sounds).
4) My new suggestion:  Right Click on the 'Trumpet' name in MY SOUNDS and select something like 'Load Sound with volume of RIGHT1/RIGHT2/RIGHT3/RIGHT4 etc'.  NOTE: You don't have to do this step - in which case t works as now  (i.e. loading the volume at 100% as now)
5) Repeat with Saxophone, Piano. Acoustic guitar sounds etc..

ditto of LEFT SOUNDS

This does not affect in any way what happens when you play live - its just settiing the initial volume when the sound is loaded the FIRST time.  This does not affect at all the volume of LEFT or RIGHT sliders in the MAIN VOLUME settings (i.e. the sliders at the right hand side)  If you adjust the volume of the sound manually when playing and you reselect the sound in the MY SOUND sound bar later- then it remains where you set it after you changed it.   This is all about the initial volume setting.

I hope this makes sense - I really don't see that this adds anything other than a positive facility to vA - but it will make life a lot simpler.   A bonus would be that there would be much less need for storing user sounds.

But as said when I started this thread - if I have misunderstood something about the way vA works and there is a better solution then somebody please tell me!

Barry

Just for information. 

After months of quite happily scanning my computer - 'Webroot Secure Anywhere' too has decided that my current edition (and indeed all older archived copies) of vArranger are dangerous.   I have told it to accept these as OK and its now quite happy.     

But something needs to be done to resolve this, as this is a recurrig theme from all sorts of anti-virus vendors - and it cannot just be a matter of submitting it to anti-virus vendors for authenticating.   

I don't have this problem with any other purchased software (and I have  a lot) - so there must be something very specific about vArranger that is causing this and it needs dealing with.

Barry

Dan,

Any chance of a response please ...

Thanks
Barry

Hi,

A Merry Xmas to you all.

Dan - PLEASE can I have a XMAS present?

Every time I use vA (and I do try often because I think it is very good) - I get so frustrated I stop using it.   But maybe I am missing something again (as I certainly was with split point saving)!

So lets try and explain, and hopefully fix, my main frustration - which is related to the volume of simple left and right sounds (as the song moves along).

So if you take a very simple example   (using the SD1000 or SD2):-

Lets say that we have a song that only uses 1 Left Hand accompaniment sound called 'Dark String' and that we want it at different volumes for different parts of the song  (e.g 10% for the first verse, 40% for first chorus, 30% for second verse, 50% for second chorus etc).   The problem is that there is no easy way, that I can discover, to do this as the volume (in this case) of 'LEFT 1' always remains at 100% and the volume of 'MASTER LEFT' remains what it was when you loaded the song.

The only way that I can see currently to solve this problem is to save the 'Dark String' Left Sound as 4 separate user voices, each with a different volume setting, and then add these user sounds separately to the 'left sound bar'.   If this is indeed the only way to solve this problem then its frankly daft - because, if nothing else,  it means that the number of user voices ends up getting ever larger.

SO - to my XMAS present :  as a suggestion for the solution (as there will be other ways):  can we please have some sort of option that allows you to (say) right click on a voice (user or otherwise) INSIDE the sound bar that says something like 'restore L/R' voice volume to the current setting of Left1/2 or Right 1/2/3/4 on change.   That way there would be a very simple way to deal with volume changes without having to create meaningless user voices.   It should also be easy to keep it compatible with exisiting songs.

Or is there a better way that I haven't yet discovered?

Thanks
Barry

Hi Dan

In which case you have my sympathy and I don't see how you can do much more. 

What is weird is to how variable it is.   I have Windows Defender on one of my machines and it has no problem with vA - yet people are complaining that their copy says its a virus.   I don't see why this should be the case - unless they somehow have different level of virus signature files on their computers (mine are up to date).  So perhaps one solution is to ask people to check that their anti-virus programs are updating correctly to the latest version as I suppose it is possible that updating may somehow have inadvertently be getting switched off.

Barry

Dan,

Or you could try fixing the problem - as I have had it too over the years (but not with the latest version in fact).  Its not satisfactory to keep telling people to submit the software to the anti-virus vendors for verification.

I buy LOTS of other software from other people and have never had such a problem with their software.  You must be doing something different  - SO what EXACTLY are you doing that causes this problem?

Barry

Hi Dan,

Can I have the link for 1.19 too please.

Thanks
Barry

[OK]

Hi,

Does anyone know about this software or maybe have tried it? ...

https://www.kbd-infinity.com/style_master.html

It says that it will create styles compatible with yamaha keyboards - so maybe they would work OK with vA

Barry

Hi,

Great News!

I have been fairly critical of the lack of meaningful updates over the last few years - so this news cheers me up no end.   

So lets hope we are not disappointed.   

Barry

Dan,

>You can save a split point since almost the first version

Well I am totally confused then because I have been asking for the split point to be saved for years - and you said about 3-4 years ago - 'I will do it'.  I have mentioned this problem on several occasions on this forum and you have never contradicted me.

So ..I'm using vA 1.18.03 

1) The default split point setting in the display is C3
2) I change the split point to (say) C4 by clicking on the split point and hitting the required key - its says the split point is C4 in the display.
3) I save the song as TEST.
4) I load another song where the split point is known to be C3 - it still says C4 in the display.
5) I exit the vA program.

6) I reload vA and the split point setting is back to C3.
7) If I load the song 'TEST' stored in 3) above- the display still shows C3 - not C4 as saved in 3)

So if I am supposed to be able to save it - then what am I missing please?

Thanks
Barry

Hi Dan,

Yes he did - he asked:  'How to define a split point for the M-Audio'

Anyway - its good news that you can now save the split point - so when did that happen and in what version?   I've seen no mention of it anywhere and I cannot seem to find it in the manual.

BTW: we all know that the settings of save song is not the same as registration menu - and also there are far too many things that are not saved in the song settings - unless that too has been updated.

Barry

Yes you can change the split point - but you cannot save it - you have to reset it every time you start vA.  So if you wanted a different split point in different songs for artistic reasons - then you would need to set it manually every time as it is not loaded with the song data.   This is a long time gripe.

Also - there is no registration/performance memory.

Barry

Hi Bluebeat,

Sorry not to have responded before - but I've been away...

I will give you full credit here - you are at least persistent.   Do you mean "selective support" or "non-existent support".   Unfortunately, I honestly believe you are wasting your time - and I suspect you are very unlikely to get what you want (and maybe you should not as its probably of low priority to others).    Cajoling Dan will clearly not work - so I suggest you should think about giving up; or accept limitations on what you can actually do with vA; or even think about moving to another solution as many others have done.   Having read through this thread - I find it mind boggling the number of hoops people are going through to get the sort of solution they want.  That's not how it should have to be (or needs to be).

I actually now more than suspect that the only development that is going on is that which makes vA more useful for Dan's own specific requirements and his customers are actually secondary (and are used to fund his hobby!).  Indeed Dan seemed to inadvertently confirm this himself when he responded after you provoked him:- 

He wrote:

"I am building actually for my own use a keyboard with a computer inside, and will go for the 100% virtual instrument route I think that the hardware route and the software route are 100% in the field of vArranger".  This sort of thing does not just take 5 minutes - so its clear where the highly restricted/limited one man development resource is going.

The fact that Dan ignores you (many of us) when its anything other than a real fault or, more likely, a request for information which might result in yet another sale is the reality.   If the request is anything about further development, or a request to see some sort of plan - then the "silence is deafening"!  And Dan's comment about not responding on the forum until he has more information is frankly treating us all as fools. 

I'm really disappointed - but this increasingly seems not to be the professional program with a professional support many of us expected for its high price.

Barry

Shepherded got drunk and snores like sailor
sheep running wild, grew set of shArp teeth...
They need fresh meadows and shelter from freezing
before they can give fluffy wool, milk or meat.

Hmmm!!   Bluebeat - do you suffer from headaches?     

I agree with you that Dan is not good at responding to things (an understatement!) - but I don't feel that bullying him is helping either!    It is what it is - and you will either get what you want or you won't (frustrating - but that's life).  In the meantime there are lots of other people who want Dan to do things too - and I don't see why you should get priority over anyone else by browbeating him.

Sorry
Barry

Hi Bluebeat

You wrote:
This program will batch save / batch open VSTs but without relation to VA styles it will require to open this host and locate saved snapshot.  If for example you have 100 songs and 80 VST saves in gig performer, you still have to locate your song and then locate corresponding VST batch save file.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Its difficult to understand what you actually need.   But there has been some discussion on the Gig Performer web site about some ex Brainspawn Forte users who have 300 songs they want to include in a gig file.   I am still new to GP - but as far as I can see it doesn't seem to matter what combination of VSTs you use - they could all be included in the same gig file.  I personally would have thought there was a memory question - but they say that GP dynamically deals with it by some sort of pre-emptive loading.   You then activate the current RackSpace as they call it (i.e. one set of VSTs  [i.e. song]) using a Program Change message - so you do not need to keep reloading the files manually using the operating system - they could be activated dynamically.   It really does seem to be a clever program - and its worth testing out in their trial period.  As I say though - I am still very much a beginner with GP.

To be honest - I'm slightly surprised that you have got yourself in this saving muddle.    I would have thought it would not have been sensible to keep forging ahead creating yet more song setups without a solution to the saving problem being obvious or forthcoming.   I also don't feel that what you are asking of Dan is trivial.

Barry

Hi Lylo,

I've been using the Windows version for a month and it seems very good indeed - in fact I think its my dream come true with using VSTs.    There is also a free trial available - so you can really get to try it on your machine.   

Here is a link to a video introducing it  :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msAKZX6moKg

I also tried VIP from AKAi - but got frustrated with it as it didn't seem very stable (lots of hangings or crashes - or maybe it was so slow in what it was doing I thought it had crashed!).  I also get the impression from the web that Akai are bit slow in fixing problems.  Not the case with Gig Performer - one of the developers actually rang me in the UK from the US.

BTW:  I actually feel that GP would probably fix Bluebeat's problem too.

Barry

Frankly I'm not in favour of just another ad-hoc botch - I want a proper, fully thought out professional solution to registration loading.

Anyway - for those of you that use VST's and want improved loading times of pre-configured VST setups - I have come across this fairly new VST host.     I have been using it for a month (not with vA I should add) and I am very impressed.   It works on Mac/PC and it claims to have instantaneous loading of VST setups.    To explain this: you set up your required VST configurations/presets and store it in a so called Rackspace.    You can load multiple Rackspaces at the same time (even containing different VSTs or presets) and the loading time when switching is 'instantaneous'.

https://www.gigperformer.com/

I hope this helps someone.

Barry

Dan

I said I would keep quiet - but just one final thought...

What about making vA itself a VST plugin (if its possible that is).   Then all issues of saving, VST instruments, audio connections etc  would be taken care of by the host - and would make the complex problem of support much easier. 

vA could concentrate on what its does best - which is its arranging capabilities...

Barry

Hi,

I was planning to keep a low profile for the time being - but I will reply seeing as Bluebeat has raised the matter:-

1) I think Dan's constant refusal to answer any question (basically just rudely ignoring any such post) about future development is downright disrespectful (many times now for me alone) - and, as Bluebeat says, is pretty poor customer service.   I worked in IT for 35 years and was a programmer for 20 of them so well know what is required!

2) Bluebeat keeps offering to pay extra for the missing facilities.   Frankly I think this is totally wrong for something that should be part of the original program.   I do not think that 350 Euros is cheap for the program in the first place and is far more than I have paid for lots of more comprehensive programs.   And given that Dan appears (as far as I am aware) to be the only person writing this program (and in his spare time) - all a bit pointless.  Because what Bluebeat is actually saying is that he is prepared to pay money for Dan to prioritize a specific piece of development (which actually it should have been there at the beginning).  Madness!!

3) Dan said: "Barry.....  I will do it......... Don't loose your hopes ".  Just like he said in the forum to me about 3 or 4 years ago that he would save the split point - but didn't (despite my subsequent reminders asking for it).   So actually I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that registration memory and many more vital things like a style editor,  a style auditioner,  one touch settings,  better voice selection, a decent manual and a general sorting out of the inconsistencies etc..will actually never happen.  Unfortunately,  I feel there is no plan - I just hope I am wrong - but it doesn't feel like it!.

Anyway - please rest assured that I will keep quiet from now on as all this is clearly a waste of time.

Barry

Hi Dan,

I'm sure its just an oversight - but you don't appear to have answered my direct message to you of a week ago (see below).   So I would appreciate if you could please do so.

Many Thanks
Barry

Feb 20th:
Its just over a year since I last raised the matter of proper registration/performance memory and nearly 4 or 5 years since I (and others)  first asked for it.   

You said a year ago:  "Barry.....  I will do it......... Don't loose your hopes " .

So I wondered if you could please provide an update as to where you are with this vital function.   It is interesting that more and more people in various threads of the forum keep asking for different bits of vA information to be stored and recovered easily (i.e. registration memory).      This is a basic facility that is even included on some cheaper hardware arrangers - so it is really important.

So perhaps you could please provide an update.

Hi Dan,

Its just over a year since I last raised the matter of proper registration/performance memory and nearly 4 or 5 years since I (and others)  first asked for it.   

You said a year ago:  "Barry.....  I will do it......... Don't loose your hopes " . 

So I wondered if you could please provide an update as to where you are with this vital function.   It is interesting that more and more people in various threads of the forum keep asking for different bits of vA information to be stored and recovered easily (i.e. registration memory).      This is a basic facility that is even included on some cheaper hardware arrangers - so it is really important.

So perhaps you could please provide an update.

Thanks
Barry

Hi Lylo,

Fantastic - it was a thoroughly well deserved win.  A lot of thought clearly went into the imaginative presentation and it was a joy to watch.   

Now you just have the problem of deciding what to do with the prize....

Best wishes
Barry

Interesting!!

I've just had Windows Defender also remove the last version of vArranger2.exe that Dan sent me as containing a virus....  (3rd Aug)

Barry

Something thats worth mentioning - but are you somehow seeing the affect of aftertouch? 

I too have an SD1000.  If aftertouch is active on the keyboard and you use it with pianos then the sound undergoes this weird pitch/tone change sometimes if you hit the key too hard - a bit like you describe.    Great if it a saxophone - but not very helpful for a non pitch change sound like a piano.

The solution in this case - if you don't want to turn off aftertouch in the keyboard that is - is to edit the voice using the voice editor.  Switch of aftertouch using the editor and then save it as a new user voice.

Anyway - its just a thought.

Barry

Hi John,

I started to type a long reply to your message and then decided it would bore everyone else on the forum rigid.

So - I have sent you a personal (i.e. forum) mail - where we can continue this conversation.

cheers
Barry

Hi John,

I actually use an SD1000.   

The main point is that people automatically assume that whenever they have a problem then this must be caused by Windows X (where X is that latest version of Windows whatever that might be)  - because "every one know that the latest version of Windows doesn't work correctly and particularly with music stuff".    Well actually in my experience that is totally wrong as I have never had problems with Windows with music software (Windows 10, Windows 8, Windows 7 and XP) - it just works 100% reliably  (e.g. one crash in the last 3 years caused by a third party program).     The big problem with Windows is that it is too flexible and people add lots of other stuff (because they can) and make it flakey as a result - and this is often what causes the problem.    For example: all the stuff that people download and try out often sets itself to run in the background at boot - and this puts a hidden load on the CPU and takes valuable memory.    If you want to know whats running in the background of your computer then try this Microsoft program:  https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx    (but please don't remove anything unless you know what you are doing).

And as a by the way: In my experience the anti-virus program you mentioned is very heavy duty.  If you have a general use computer then maybe you need it - but if its just for music stuff then maybe not.    For example: I have a specific music laptop which rarely gets connected to the Internet - and then only for updates from legitimate manufacturers websites - and thus is just uses the basic installed Microsoft anti-virus software which seems to have a very light touch indeed.  Also - definitely NO illegal software - as that is a short cut to a well deserved hell (or obscure failures as we call them)!

Dan is a clever lad - and I'm sure he can fix the problem.

Barry
PS Sorry - this sounds a bit like an unintended lecture!

John,

Sometimes when you do a system restore it can fail because of anti virus software (I have had this - though cannot remember the error I got but it sounded similar).  I suggest that you try temporarily disabling anti virus software during the system restore (for info - I use AVG and just tell it to disable until re-boot).     Then try the restore again.

Also - make sure there are no other applications running in the background when you do the restore to confuse matters.

Barry
PS By the way - don't get hung up on Windows 10 being a problem  - I've found it to be very stable and reliable.

Hi,

Good idea - but I think it should be part of the standard setup - not a separate charge - otherwise you will open a pandora box.  I think Dan has mentioned in the past doing something like this - so it will already probably be on his list.

However, the reality is that Dan does not have an infinite amount of time - and there other more important things to be done.

Barry

Hi,

> Barry.....  I will do it......... Don't loose your hopes

Dan - thanks for this - that is all I wanted you to say.     If I can help by doing some testing anytime - then I would be pleased to do so.

Regards
Barry

> vA2 has Songs which is equivalent for registration or performance, and you can Save very much settings(styles, multi sounds and ect....), when you set some style and sound you go on Save- SONG and you have many useful options for saving in one Song, and number of songs is unlimited...

Actually it has been stated many times before that vA song mode does not seem to save all it should  (e.g. split point, Left hold modes, Right voice settings, etc etc ) .   Apart from this problem - if you try to use vA song mode as though it were registration memory then there is an long audible delay as the new song brings about a style change (assuming the new song has a different style that is).  This is with an i7 processor and 8Gb memory - so its not hardware related.   This just doesn't sound correct  and just doesn't happen with registration memory on the hardware arrangers that I have used (and yes - I did mention this delay to Dan in an email about 2+ years ago).     [BTW: I did at one time write something on the forum on how song mode could be used to simulate a sort of registration memory - but that has long since been a non-starter.]

Unfortunately I do not actually believe that Dan thinks that proper registration memory is necessary - which is why I started this friendly thread in the hope that people would attempt to convince him otherwise.    Unfortunately when I have raised this in the past (either on the forum or via email) - Dan just ignores it (as he is now) - which is why I have reluctantly come to this conclusion . 

I think vA is really good and I just want it to achieve its full potential - and that is to actually compete with hardware arrangers.

Barry

Hi,

Apart from Blagoj - I'm amazed that there is no other interest in this.

Just about every major arranger keyboard brand (apparently even including Technics) has (in the opinion of some friends who gig) the vital facility of registration/performance memory (or equivalent).  So I find it really strange that nobody else (including apparently Dan) seems to think it is important in vA. 

Barry

Hi,

I have been hoping for some time that Dan would add the facility of registration/performance memory to vA.  If vA is ever to compete with hardware arrangers (which it most definitely could) - then it really need this important feature.

I found the following video on YouTube which demonstrates what this could add if it was implemented in vA. The set of 8 green buttons on the lower right hand side of the keyboard are the registration memory buttons.  Notice that he stores complete settings of the keyboard (voices, styles, lots of other settings) into these buttons and by pressing just one of these eight buttons he can choose to change the entire setup in one go (e.g.  style and/or the complete set of voices - no need to save multi-voices to a user voice as we have to in vA).  Thus he can play a complete song, or set of songs, without ever going near the style buttons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CboWVzXL5-8

Please can we have this ....

Thanks
Barry

Interesting discussion.  I have an SD2 and an SD1000 and my biggest issue is the loss of the drawbars in the SD1000  (are  in the SD2 not in SD1000 as far as I can tell).  They were actually quite useful.

With regards to things taking a long time to get implemented .... I have long since given up hope that some essential developments will arrive in a reasonable time or indeed happen at all with vA (or vapor Arranger as some people apparently now call it).  As a trivial example: its now nearly 3 years since I asked for the saving of split points (and was assured it would happen)  [Feb 2014].  So I now just accept vA as it is - and am grateful for small mercies as we say in this part of the world.  I don't bother to ask for more or try to provide any input because its frankly a waste of time.

I have heard that Dan is now working on support for Technics styles.    If this is true then I think it indicates that there is no development plan at all.   As I have said before: Dan clearly has no spare time  (and if you have a separate full time job, a family and do gigging then how can you have...) - so wasting time on adding support for a 20 years old obsolete style format is ridiculous.

Personally - I think the time would be better spent sorting out some of the more annoying aspects of vA:  like having to save user voices for everything; like lack of registration/performance memory and some form of improved style audition option  (i.e. how do you pick the best choice from 50,000 styles).   

Maybe I'm cynical - but it always seems surprising how quick things happen if the end result looks like more sales

And Lylo - I (and others actually) have always wondered if you were Dan's business partner as you speak for him so often - so thanks for explaining that (you are clearly his very loyal friend).   However, you have clearly failed in helping him organize his brain as you suggest   

Barry

Hi Dan,

Yep - I saw this when it was mentioned on the French forum a couple of weeks ago - its a good deal and the software is great.

My reason for mentioning this is to encourage people on the English forum to actually use the facilities built into the vA website to get automatic translation of the French forum.    This facility has been available for a couple of years - but I note that the google translation to English now seems to be a lot better than it used to be  (although you do occasionally get some translations that are best described as 'pigeon English' - but you can usually work it out).  And the French forum is actually discussing some interesting stuff - so its worth looking at..

So in case you don't know how to do this auto translation:-

- Click on the English forum (i.e. so that you can see all the available entries) . 
- Then Click on the text in one of the entries labelled 'The French forum translated by Google'
- And then click on Dans first link on the conversation that then opens (it starts http://translate.google......

The French forum will then open and you will see all the entries in English.  Whats nice is that if you then click on a link within this translated forum - then this too will be auto-translated.

You can't respond to comments though as far as I know (but then I haven't tried)...

I hope this is of some interest to someone.

BTW Dan:  Is there any chance that we could please have the second link removed in the above process - so that clicking on 'The French forum translated by Google' actually takes you there in one go.    The second click is a waste of energy.    Thanks!!

Regards
Barry

No one is blaming Dan. 

As you say - 'The only solution is a new acount identification system...'   or at least to set the protection of this one if at all possible.

Hi,

I agree with Lylo with his reply to one of the yet more SPAM messages we seem have had an increasing number of lately.

Dan - so why can't this rubbish be filtered out...   

I cannot actually see the point of these spam messages - does anyone actually read them and act on them.   As far as I can tell all they do is just annoy people.

Barry

Hi Chaps,

I came across this useful free book on tuning Windows for audio (for musicians).    Obviously its geared towards the Cantabile VST host - but it has useful information and is worth reading:-

https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

And for completeness - here is another useful page from Steinberg on the same topic:-

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/optimizing-windows-for-daws.html

There are many others if you do a suitable google search...

Barry

Hi,

Don't know if this helps but the Monatge manual PDF can be loaded from here:-

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ca.yamaha.com&asset_id=66554

Or just search Yamaha Montage Manual

Barry

Yes you have rigth but... you forget than vArranger work in full audio now and it isn't necessary to buy a SD2 Ketron, perhaps for you it's not a progress but you can't say that vArranger progress slowly, the last two years are revolution.
But I'm ok with you for some missings features, your exemple is good, why we cannot save the split point ? I never understand because is a really good feature.
But for Style maker I think you must understand is a great but difficult function to build, is a powerful software same all vArranger I think and perhaps the development need a more efficient vArranger before (don't forget vArranger read 4 styles formats).   

Sorry for my poor english.

Hey Lylo - we agree - thats progress     - and I think your English is really good - do not doubt it.   My ancestors were French - but my French speaking is not good at all.

Anyway - what you say about the so called latest developments is correct.   Its not progress for me as I have a working solution - but therein lies the problem.   It just feels to me that all the development resource is going into work that results in new sales - and those people who already have it are being somewhat ignored.  Some of the niggling problems (like not being able to save the split point and many others) never seem to get resolved.  There are several things that really need to be done to get this program as good as a hardware arranger- such as registration menus, style auditioners (i.e. how do you find the right style from 100,000 styles - as you say there are 4 style types); style editors; style creators [from midi-files]; one touch settings; music finders etc. etc.     But I really cannot see them ever happening.  If these were present vA would sell itself - and Dan could even give up the day job.

Barry

> But with hardware you have also some limitation and you can't hope any solution.

Lylo - don't get me started ....       What you say is very true - but its not hardware and we are told that this is the great advantage of vA over hardware arrangers - it can be changed to do anything.   [ You can, of course, usually exchange/sell hardware arrangers for the latest model which will do it all (except they don't as we all know - but they do at least make regular incremental progress and sometimes large leaps)].

In my experience vA changes really don't seem to happen in a reasonable time - to the point I just take whats given e.g. Its now over 2 years since I was told that the split point would be savable and nearly 4 years since we were told that there would be a style editor .     Have you ever wondered why so many people keep asking for the latest version in the beta thread if its so complete already.   

Barry 

@ BjayG

So what is the solution? 

If I can save User Voices in the song, I have no problem. Then several voices for a song would be conceivable. If every time I switch an song, I must adjust Voices, the vArranger-Software would be useless for me.

There may not be one for you.   Yes - of course you can save user voices for a song and restore them when you reload the song.   I'm merely saying that you always have to save a user voice if you just  want to load a song and start playing  (unless you want to adjust it manually with midi faders at the start of every song which I think Lylo is saying).    If you want to do it automatically - and you are fussy about the the balance of voices in a user voice then the list of user voices could get very long indeed because it is available in every song [eg. Piano90%+ Strings10%, Piano60%+ Strings20%, Piano40%+ Strings50%,  Piano10%+ Strings50%, Piano90%+ Strings10%+Oboe80% etc etc).   The other thing I am saying is that the Right1, 2,3 4 etc always get cleared to a default empty setting (i.e. Right 1=a standard sound at full volume, the rest cleared [I'm away from vA so trying to remember so may be a bit wrong])  when you load a new song so you need to save it as a user voice in advance and then it will get set up correctly.  I, and others, think this is a real pain - but another group think we are being totally unreasonable.   At the end of the day - it will work - but not how you would necessarily imagine.   NOTE: Just for clarification on re-reading the above:  you do not have to create a user voice to use one of the standard sounds like a Piano or a Guitar - its only necessary if you want to combine sounds.   However, the same way of working will apply.

A bigger issue for me - and I have never been able to solve it [and I really would like to know the solution if anyone can tell me] - is how you balance the voices between style sections  (i.e. Main1 to Main2 to Main3 to Main4)  as I have never found a way of achieving this without adjusting it manually or creating a user voice.   You can set vA to change the sound automatically when you change the style section - but there appears no way that I know of of actually changing the volume of that sound for each of the different sections.   So as an example - if you have a quiet standard piano voice for the right hand when playing MAIN1 at the beginning - and then at the end of the song at MAIN4 you then want to go back to the same piano voice - then you cannot (that I know of ) adjust the volume of the piano for each of the 2 sections.  So if you cannot adjust the relative volume then how do you stop the piano drowning out the backing in MAIN1,   or being drowned out by the backing in MAIN4.    As I say - I would love to know the answer if anyone has it - and NO its not that you adjust the volume with a midi controller manually.    A solution might be that you save yet another user voice for a single Piano at say 10% for MAIN1 and another at 80% for the Piano at Main4.  But then we are back to the same problem of the total user voice list growing ever larger. 

This is one of the reasons a group of us wanted registration memory - but it looks like it will never happen and I have given up asking you will be pleased to learn.

Personally - to solve all these questions about can it do this?, can it do that? - then I feel there should be a demo version of this program so people can try it out.  As its only when you have had it for a few months that some of the limitations begin to show.  This is not at all intended as a criticism - but this is a complex program which requires a lot more than the money back period to understand.    And sorry - demo does not equal crack if its done properly or necessarily require a lot of extra work.  Lets be honest 350 Euros is not at all cheap (despite some people trying  to convince themselves [or more likely their wives] that it is) - and people ought to be able  to try it out before they buy as a result.

Barry

Again - unless its changed - it does not save the right sound type and levels.  So if you set up Right1, 2, 3 etc levels and sounds then these are not restored when you load the song - they are cleared back to a default value.    To get a balance of sounds you always have to create a user voice (sound).     So if during a song you want, for example, a piano at 50% and strings at 50% for one section then it is necessary to save this combination as a user voice; and for the next section you want the piano at 10% and the strings at 80% then you have to create a second user voice - and so on, and so on etc etc.   The so called advantage is that these voices are then available in any other songs you create.  The disadvantage is that if you are fussy about getting the balance right and you create lots of  combination of sounds then the number of user voices can get extremely big and unwieldy.   If on the other had you are happy to work with just a few favorite sound combinations  - which surprisingly a lot of people do then apparently then its not a problem.  I think it is very poor  - but lots of other people think the VA way of working is perfect.   So who am I to say who is right or wrong.

To clarify - when I use the term voice above - I mean two or more  sounds in Right 1, 2, 3 etc layered together at different levels and saved as a single user sound.

Barry

PS I should have also said that the simulated performance mode I described in great detail in that thread no longer works at all because there is an audible delay between the sections.

Barry

Hi,

>If I understand correctly, every song let separately save with all its settings (Sounds, Style, Transpose, Split Point etc.) without any limit how much i need.

It depends on what you want - but as far as I know you cannot save everything you want in song mode - see the thread here where there was a big argument:-

http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php/topic,2009.msg19261.html#msg19261

As far as I know these haven't been resolved - but they may have been.  If so nobody has said (but then there never was a response from Dan on the topic)

Good luck
Barry

I agree with Lylo - I think there are far more important things to do than a 4th midi output.

Sorry - but I feel sweetbb needs to calm down a bit and think it through.   Posting 128 messages in just over a month must be putting a load on Dan (who usually tries to help).  We all know Dan has very limited resources and it must potentially be distracting him from his development work and there are others with requirements too.

Barry

Dan is correct about Miditzers theatre organ soundfonts - they were very well thought of - although possibly they might be showing signs of age now (I haven't used Miditzer for about 10 years - so they may have been updated).  The guy who created the sound fonts was called Bruce Miles and he has some other theater organ soundfonts here:-

http://www.milestones.me.uk/soundfonts.html

These ran originally in a program called JOrgan and the latter has become a really good pipe organ emulation (both classical and theatre) - see here:-

http://jorgan-home.de/mediawiki_en/index.php?title=Home and http://www.familjenpalo.se/vpo/sf2    [or just Google JORGAN]

Best of all is its free...

I hope it helps.

Barry

Hi,

I have just noticed that Roland have released their Sound Canvas plugin as a VST.  There is apparently a demo available - so it might be useful as a sound source for VA.   It costs 115 Euros - so not outrageously expensive if it does the job.

See:  http://www.roland.com/products/sound_canvas_va/

Seasons greeting to everyone.

Barry

Lylo - you seem to jump to Dan's defence so quickly when you think he is being got at - that I'm beginning to suspect that you are his mother 

So let me be absolutely clear - at no time do I doubt that Dan is committed to vA and I certainly have no doubt at all about his excellent technical abilities.    In addition I also think that vA is a good arranger - although in all honesty I don't yet feel that it is a great arranger  (but could be).  This is because it has some annoying inconsistencies and some vital missing facilities such as performance memory;  random things not being stored; and lacks a decent way of auditioning styles.   By the latter I mean that being able to use Roland, Korg, Ketron and Yamaha styles is great - but if that gives access to (I dunno) 100000 styles but you cannot easily find the one you want then this is an issue.  In addition I think that Dan's support is excellent when you have a problem BUT ....

My personal gripe is actually very simple and is not that controversial:-

1) I feel that my (and I know other peoples) views are being ignored.  Dan has never answered the thread I raised about 'Save mode does not save all it should ' (and which others agreed)  neither in the forum nor privately.  And it appears that he was doing his best to ignore this one too (there are other examples).     It should be noted that at least 2 people who participated in that thread appear to have sold their vA licence  (and one actually told me it was because he was fed up).   So that should tell you something...     I have no idea why there is no response and there may be a perfectly good explanation - but frankly I just find it rude.

2)  I have had vA for 2.5 years and I cannot detect any form of a plan as to where this program is going.   Controversial I know - but I cannot see the point of wasting effort on adding comprehensive VST support when there are perfectly good hosts already available and there are lots of basic arranger facilities still missing.   I fully understand that Dan has got very limited resources (particularly if he is only programming when he has spare time - and with a family, and doing gigs - I would be amazed if he has any time).     Then all the more reason why that valuable time has to be focused on the important things.     I (and I'm sure many others), consequently,  do not think it unreasonable that there should be a published 'wish list' and whether they will implemented (and any likely timescales).   Why would that be controversial - its simple to implement and we could at least see where we are going and gives people the chance to add to it.    NOTE FOLKS: PLEASE DO NOT WASTE TIME ON ARGUING THE VST CASE AGAIN - ITS DEAD!

I really am not the enemy here and I do not want to just generate endless arguments or walk away from vA - I just want to know we are going somewhere (and that not unreasonable).   

And contrary to what was written in the above mentioned "save mode does not save all it should"  thread in which it was stated that: "you do not know what you are frigging talking about"  - well I actually do.  I have used synths, pianos, organs, keyboards, VST instruments  for 30 years.  I was in professional IT for 35 years - of which nearly 20 years was as a technical computer programmer plus 10 years as a software development manager.   In addition I have written (and write) music related software and some of it was sold world wide. 

So - please - just better communication...

Cheers
Barry

Hi Dan,

It would actually be quite helpful for a lot of people if you actually made your TODO  list public.  As well as giving people a chance to provide feedback on their priorities it might also help to reduce some of the frustrations about apparent lack of or progress  (and I do stress apparent - because I'm sure like a duck although little seems to be happening on the surface - you are busily paddling away underneath).

Barry

Hi,

There was no response to anazariz's question - so what was is the answer...

Its now 3.5 years since it was first suggested by Dan as being in the next release ( February 25, 2012)  - so is it ever going to happen or is this yet more vA vaporware?

Barry

Lylo wrote:  > but also with a job and a family

This came as a total surprise - but it does explain my concerns.     

I have always assumed that vA was written by a commercial company (albeit a very small one man one) with full time support and development.  Maybe I was being very naive - but given its high price it never once occurred to me that vA was basically a hobby project that was being developed in someones spare time and effectively had hardly any support/development capacity.

I'm truly disappointed because I'm sorry to say that I cannot see that there is the likelihood of any major development in anything like the near future.

I hope maybe I've misunderstood - so please correct me.

Barry

Hi,

Well Good luck with that - I note that after 7 months I never did get a proper response from Dan (publicly or via email) - so I have to assume that performance mode or improved song save won't happen.

Anyway - the reason I responded was to say that I gave some instructions on how to simulate a sort of performance mode using song mode in this thread.   Unfortunately that got broken several months ago and no longer works as there is an audible delay as vA changes song - so makes it unusable  (and no - I never received acknowledgement when I reported the problem).

Barry

It was discussed and we got some answers - so I am happy with that .

I never said Dan should not be paid something - so I suggest we move on.

Barry

Lets get this clear - in no way am I suggesting that Dan should do a transfer for free - I'm just querying the price and suggesting that 10 to 20 Euros is more realistic for just updating contact details (Dan has still not disagreed that this is all that is involved).  [BTW:    I'll happily do it for 40 Euros  :-)  ]

You make the comment that the 50 Euro transfer charge will include updates and Dan's support.   But is that not what the original purchase price included and why does it need to be paid twice?     

I asked how big a problem this licence transfer thing actually is (no answer )?   If Dan is only getting one or two requests a year then this cannot be a big deal so why does there need to be a charge at all and why is it an issue - it should just be done for customer goodwill purposes.  However, if lots of people are selling up then this is very worrying indeed.

With regards to the comment about lots of companies do not allow licences to be transferred and thus we are very lucky that Dan allows it.  Not true - this is totally incorrect - it seems to be the norm not an exception!   Most music software vendors do indeed allow the transfer of licences and the cost seems to be usually free - but if there is a charge (rarely) then it seems to be nominal (even Steinberg appears to do it for free ).  Here is a comprehensive list of examples from the web:-

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=354654

The only limitation for some vendors is that they then do not allow that licence to be sold on again (thus you will see NFR in the web link meaning 'not for resale')

Barry

Dan,

Nobody is suggesting that you should do it for free and I was just asking what was involved - which you haven't answered.    So I still have to believe that what I said was involved in the transfer is  the most likely list.  So based on my list then maybe a 10 or 20 Euro handling change is more realistic than 50.    Certainly it should not involve you in anything such as transferring the USB stick from the seller to the buyer - that would be daft and highly inefficient and would definitely involve you in a lot of unnecessary work .   

So I would suggest that a 10 or 20Euro handling charge sounds about right.

And come on - changing hands 1000 times - be serious!   

But this does raise a point - is transferring a licences actually taking a great deal of your time and becoming an issue - I would have thought there was maybe only a handful of transfers ?

Barry

Hi

I'm curious to know why there is a 50 Euro transfer fee as this seems a bit expensive to me.

The USB stick provides a serial number which is linked presumably to a database (or list) of contact details of the registered owner.  So transferring to the new owner surely means just typing a new name into the database.   Not exactly a 50 Euro job.

If the argument is that there is a support overhead to the new owner - then surely this has already been paid for in the original purchase price and its not right to try and charge this twice.

So what have I missed?

Barry

Dear All,

I'm relieved that people are agreeing there is a problem and that Dan is now thinking about it.    I have every confidence in Dan's abilities and still believe that, without any doubt, vA is a great arranger and I believe that moving to use VST and other future technologies is really important.   However, the basics need to work too as that will definitely make it much stronger.

I honestly do not think that the problems I identified are too difficult to fix (although I'm sure we can make it really difficult without trying too hard if we keep adding to the complexity   ;-)   ).  And it is still my view that if we can save more items in song save (as I identified) then we really will have the fundamentals of a quite practical and usable performance mode.   At least get these basic issues fixed and then see what people think.   For info:   I have written a brief explanation of this at the bottom.

So I would like to suggest a way forward as I think I would like to see a definite plan - and not have one item fixed here and another later on.    I suggested a comprehensive list earlier and I would like to suggest it should form the basis of any changes.  Perhaps this list could then be divided into 2:  with one list being a definite 'WILL IMPLEMENT' and another will be 'WILL INVESTIGATE'.  So anything related to the fundamental use of vA (such as say split point) should be in the first list and anything related to specific hardware (like DSP) should perhaps be in the second list.     So here is the list again - but this time in the two categories.

WILL IMPLEMENT
- Split point 
- Left (1-3) and Right (1-4) and 2nd voice:-      [note: this applies when MySounds are unset - as any MySounds sounds will obviously override the contents]
  Sound selection
  Volume sliders
- For all sound sections including accompaniments
  On/off buttons
  Solo Buttons
  Chorus/ reverb controllers
  Left/right pan
  Aftertouch on/off settings (in voice edit - but why? - these are surely not part of voice changes - more real time? ).
  Voice edit parameters (but maybe should be the reason for a User Sound)
- HOLD button
- LEFT button
- Accompaniment section BASS - Octave Bass
- Fill In: Auto button

WILL INVESTIGATE
- Under FX2 - Delay setting
- Under FX2 - Disto setting

I certainly understand, and share, Dan's concern that if we are not careful then its possible to mess up vA's response time - thus Dan's comment about sending lots of SysExe.   But if all we are doing is setting the internals of vA itself - then I would not have thought it would make too much difference.  Also I would presume that maybe DSP setting changes only need re-sending if they have altered in order to reduce any overhead  (but this might happen anyway!).

Perhaps Dan would like to comment on whether this is a practical way forward.

Thanks
Barry

And for those wondering what I am talking about using songs as performance mode - then here is a brief overview :-

? PERFORMANCE MODE:-

It is not apparently widely known that you can store a song folder within a song folder (i.e the MySongs folder) and that when you store multiple songs within this lower folder they appear as separate buttons on the left hand selection list (i.e. where the styles normally display).   By assigning the midi functions to the song controllers identified as Song 1, Song2, etc or by selecting the screen menu manually - you can then select each of these individual sub-songs in real time.    The clever part is that vA waits until the end of the bar before the song changes over to the next.  So if 'Sub-song 1' is the Intro leading into Part A of Swing 1 using a Clarinet; then 'Sub-song 2' can be Part B of Swing 1 using a Trombone etc. You could even have 'Sub-Song 3'  as a completely different style  (maybe even a 2/4 section!!) etc. .    Everything else about using vA works as normal.   (at least that is how it seems to work in my experiments).

> The forum is here for ask the features, if you say one day "I want this function" and after you never explain why it's important for you,
>  Dan can go to work on other features, it's not the good way and fatally you crying one year later.

I did say this on the forum in February 2014 - and Dan's response (in the forum) was:-

About other need :
You Want total snapshots of all the settings in vArranger.  This is the goal of SAVE SONG feature.
You have noticed me that you need the SPLIT point and LINK button to be saved too. I will add it.

And the answer is ?

Maybe I am old fashioned - but my view is that it is not correct to always raise matters in a public forum.    If I have a complaint with a TV - then I contact the supplier and give them a chance to fix it - not tell the world.     I have explained in great detail to Dan privately (via email) on several occasions of my requirements and reasons.

Barry

Hi

Although I mentioned it in the text - I forgot to add it to my list - and it was what started me off in the first place  (duh!!):-

So add - Split Point also not saved.

Barry

Dear All,

I have been using vArranger since August 2013 and I am disappointed to say that I am beginning to become increasingly frustrated with it.  It has undoubted strengths - but song/reload can sometimes be a downright pain.

I raised this in a thread on the forum last week related to muting song chords - but decided that the issue actually deserved its own thread.   What I said then was that: "The biggest fault with vArranger for me is that it doesn't have what I call performance, registration or total user presets modes.".  Certainly most top of the range arrangers do have this facility and vA has aspirations to join this illustrious group. 

In the thread I indicated the way (as its apparently not widely known) that something akin to performance mode could be simulated by stringing together several small songs (i.e. music sections) in real time.   And by using assignable midi controllers - it is possible to flexibly call up these music sections with a button push from your keyboard.   This part works extremely well and is very easy to use:  see   http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php/topic,1964.0.html?PHPSESSID=01fc60bb49b5ab79856cf362b25d09df  for more details.

That's the good bit.  But what is a severe problem to me is that SONG SAVE does not save a whole load of parameters/items that I feel it should and it consequently removes a lot of potential flexibility and usability.  For example:  using very short song segments still means you need to set up a MySounds sound bar (or even a multi-voice) even if it contains only one sound - rather than more simply leaving the sounds as they were in the Left (1-3) and Right (1-4) sound windows. I have been raising this matter privately with Dan for well over a year - but he doesn't seem to accept there is an issue and this is adding greatly to my frustration. 

For me - a fundamental problem is that the settings of the Left (1-3) and Right (1-4) sounds and lots of other things are not stored - and that when you load a song (any song) then those sections are set to something completely different to what they were when the song was saved!  I believe it should be possible to save the settings of nearly everything on the screen (and some hidden) when you save a song - and have them reloaded later EXACTLY as they were saved - and not have vArranger  decide to arbitrarily change it to what it chooses.   Below is a list of things not saved in a song, which I believe should be:-

- Left (1-3) and Right (1-4) and 2nd voice:-
  Sound selection
  Volume sliders
- For all sound sections including accompaniments:-
  On/off buttons
  Solo Buttons
  Chorus/ reverb controllers
  Left/right pan
  Aftertouch settings (in voice edit - but why?).
  Voice edit parameters (but maybe should the reason for a User Sound)
- Under FX2 - Delay setting
- Under FX2 - Disto setting
- HOLD button
- LEFT button
- Accompaniment section BASS - Octave Bass
- Fill In: Auto button
- What others?

The point that I keep making to Dan is that as far as I can tell there should be no negative impact in saving all the above stuff and restoring them on loading - and people can carry on using vA exactly as now if they wish.   By all means make it user selectable - that would desirable and even better.   But it makes no sense to me that people would actually not want vA to load a song exactly as they stored it, rather than have it arbitrarily change it - which it currently does!

The major advantage is that it means you would be able to load a song and then start to play as soon as you reload it -  and not have to fiddle around setting things like split point and the left hold parameters etc.  But the real gain, for me,  would be that it would be possible to reload the last settings of the sound (e.g. sound, sliders, mute buttons) without having to go through the flog of needing to pre-save sounds unnecessarily in advance (either as user sound or via the MySounds bar). 

So - I really do not understand why this simple problem cannot be fixed - particularly when it increases the usability and flexibility of vA.   

Does anyone else find it a problem?

Regards
Barry

Hi Al,

Yep - the solo and mute buttons are also strangely not stored when you save a song amongst all the other things I mentioned.    I actually find it extremely odd that the levels and voices of the accompaniment/style section are stored when you save a song - yet the left and right user voices and levels are not!   

The main reason I use the song mode I described is that I was taught that style sections are often overly complicated and that they need to be thinned down a lot to be usable.   Indeed the last time I was told this was by Yamaha in a teaching session just last year.   For example - I have actually made an entire song just using a single variation (e.g. Part B) by adjusting accompaniment sounds and levels of just this one chosen style variation   (so maybe drums+bass, then drums +bass+guitar, then drums+bass+guitar+piano etc etc) .  I certainly don't want to have to anything resembling editing the style completely - but by saving each of the tweaked sections as a separate song and then calling them up one by one using the manner I described - means that I can easily do this.   If only I could do the same thing about tweaking the left and right hand voices without having to create yet another user sound combination.  BTW: If anyone knows a better way of doing this then I would appreciate knowing it.

Cheers
Barry

Hi All,

If I have understood correctly - then there is a sort of way of way of doing what you want (i.e. switch off instruments for a bar or few etc).      The biggest fault with vArranger for me is that its doesn't have what I call performance,  registration or total user presets modes.  It does have something similar (unpublished of course      ), but the facility does have severe limitations which  I  have contacted Dan about on several occasions over the last 18 months.

Anyway - its not published anywhere that I know of that you can have songs within songs.  To use it do the following:-

Set up a song in vArranger as normal and then save it (i.e.  the first part) as follows:-

Click 'Save' and then 'Song'.  On the Registration options in the window that opens tick 'Save All'.   In the SONG NAME box enter (say) 'Part 1'.  In the FOLDER box enter (say)
'(00)My SONGS\TEST'      NOTE: this is what should be in the boxes and it may be more sensible to use the file search to locate the directory.    Either way what we are doing is creating a sub-directory within  'My Songs' and putting the song 'TEST' within it.   Click 'SAVE' to save the song.

NOTE:  this used to work fine for me - but now for some reason I get an error message from vArranger (Error 44.1.0  ....  .PAT     Index was outside the bounds of the array) - perhaps Dan could please look at this.   However this is not a show stopper as the action is still completed.    So if you get the error message (and it may just be me) then best reload vArranger and go to My Songs as normal.   

You will now see your new song TEST created as normal  -  but if you click on its name  you will now see the sub-song  (Part 1) displayed in the left hand selection box.

Click on your song called 'Part 1'.    (As an example) Turn the accompaniment voices down to zero (so only the drum track is playing).

Now save this song as before - but now call the song 'Part 2'.  It won't give any error this time.    Song 'Part 2' will appear in the left hand selection window.

Now reset any accompaniment levels back to those in song 'Part 1'  - or make any other changes - and save this as before as a song called 'Part 3'.  This too will appear in the left hand selection window.

Now try it out...

Select 'Part 1' and start the music going   - we should have a normal song.
Want the part with just the drummer playing - so select Part 2. This rather coolly delays until the end of the bar and the same song with just the drummer carries on.
Now back to normal - hit song 'Part 3' and the band starts again.

Anyway - I hope this helps someone.    This is potentially a really useful feature - but the biggest problem for me is that saving the song doesn't save all sorts of things that I feel it should (like split point;  hold;  the levels and sounds of the Left 1-3 and Right 1-4 voices and other things - which limits is potential use.   For example:  Just think how much easier (and useful) it would all be if you could save all the settings of vArranger and have it restored back to exactly to how it was before (e.g. being able to have sounds and volume levels restored so that you didn't have to always set up and save user voices unless you wanted to) .

As I say - I may have completely misunderstood - in which case please ignore me (most people do anyway - I'm used to it!!)

Cheers
Barry
 

Dear All,

To answer Dan's original question:  'What is the right price for vArranger?'  then the following are my thoughts:-

Dan clearly needs to make a profit (i.e. sell more copies) to continue to develop vArranger - which in all our interests.   So I feel that maybe 2 prices might be appropriate:-

1) As now - one off price of 349 Euros (I think this is the current price - but lets assume it is).  For this you get unlimited support, unlimited updates and access to the downloads section of the web site.

2) A cheaper option - lets say150 Euros.   For this you get 1 year of updates, 1 year of support and 1 years access to the download section.     A downside of this might be that an  unscrupulous person might be prepared to pass their full copy on to others - but there are ways of preventing this!    Additional years could be added at (say) 50 Euros per year or there could be a means up upgrading to the 'full' version for the difference.

Instruction Manual:  I've said this before - for software costing 350 Euros there should be an English manual.  But we have to be realistic here.  Dan is only a one-man band and English is not his native language - so an English manual is not going to come easily and quickly.  If we want new facilities in vArranger then I can't see how Dan can do both.   Maybe he needs some volunteers or perhaps even consider hiring a student during vacation to make the translation.

Demo version:   A lot of time and effort seems to be expended on the forum answering the question "I am thinking of buying vArranger - does it do....".   I cannot see why a simple demo version cannot be created from the current existing major version.     If this demo had ALL loading and saving removed (as in no capability at all within the program image), and came with one style only (chosen not to be too useful and locked somehow) then this ought to answer most questions about whether the program is suitable or not for people considering purchase.    I think the  only issue then is about sound selection - but maybe the built-in Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth would be adequate for the evaluation process if people don't have better  (always assuming this works with vA - I haven't checked).     

Anyway - just my opinion.

Cheers
Barry

Hi All,

>Do you really need to change the chord recognition zone between each songs.
>I tend to think that it is a general setting

I too find this a problem and think it ought to be possible to vary the chord split point between songs.    I have said before (both on the forum and to Dan directly)  that I also believe that it should be possible to set/reset everything related directly to the song on a per song basis (i.e. voices selected, volume of instruments etc. etc.).   I cannot see that such a facility would impact on any current usage, but would greatly increase the flexibility of vArranger no end.  Indeed this is what happens when you save a total preset/registration on something like a Clavinova etc..

Anyway - thats my 2 penny worth.

Cheers
Barry

Hi Juan,

I don't know if this is of any help as I am not familiar with the MOXF6 but I do have an older Motif XS8 and have experienced similar problems when using midi files externally and using the XS8 as a sound generator.

The problem I had was that the sounds sounded weird unless I switched the Motif into GM mode.  The reason being that the midi program change messages of the sounds of the Motif do not conform to the normal GM standard as it's a synth - not a GM device.   So in my case I had to put the Motif into Song Mode and  then initialise the sound bank to a GM set using the JOB function  (I think that's what I did anyway) and then the midi files worked correctly.  I have never checked, but I would not be surprised if the non-GM drum sets would also not conform to the expected GM layout and thus produce weird sounds.

Anyway - I have no idea if a similar thing is happening in your case - but it's worth mentioning in case it gives you some ideas.

Cheers
Barry

Dear Kooy,

I just did a google search on 'Presonus Audiobox USB hangs' and it appears to be a common problem mentioned on the Presonus web site.   The forum there a couple of years ago was getting quite animated about this and the suggestion then was to contact Presonius support for their advice.  So it could be that it's fixed now - so if you have not already done so then I suggest you try updating to the latest driver. 

I hope this helps

Cheers
Barry

One of the issues that may have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum - but I have not noticed it - is the need for tuning Windows for use with audio applications and is particularly important if you are pushing Windows hard. 

Certainly there is unlikely to be a problem with midi only applications - but it gets a bit more critical once you start adding VST and the like and particular with older or underspecified machines.  Windows is designed for a pleasant user experience and not for real time applications so ought to be tuned accordingly.

As an example - I had an old Core 2 Duo 2.4MHz laptop (with 4GB memory + Windows 7) connected via firewire to my Motif-XS8 and it got very temperamental with certain VSTs (e.g. Ivory II Piano) and particularly if the sustain pedal was used.   I discovered that it was necessary to tune the machine quite drastically to stop dropouts and remove stuttering (even down to configuring the supplied graphics card on one computer).  And BTW in case people using firewire with Windows don't know - there can be serious problems related to having a firewire interface with 'incompatible' chips - in that the result can be dropped connections and all manner of clicks, pops and other horrors when using audio.  The firewire interfaces usually recommended for use with audio are those containing chips made by Texas Instruments.   Its now impossible to buy firewire on laptops so external USB audio is a much better way to go (it is anyway).  Also using Synthogy Ivory Piano II as an example - I found that this machine would max out its CPU when using the supplied Cantabile host - but would work extremely well when using Brainspawn Forte as the host (the latter being designed specifically for robust professional live play) - so it suggests that the implementation of the VST host program is equally important to computer performance.

Anyway - back to the subject - there are lots of articles on the Internet (search for 'OPTIMIZING WINDOWS FOR AUDIO') for getting the best out of Windows for use with audio.  This is mainly for use with DAWs - but the problem and solution is the same.   Here are some samples:-

https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/optimizing-windows-for-daws.html

http://global.focusrite.com/answerbase/optimising-your-pc-for-audio-on-windows-7?id=1071

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/395036-optimizing-windows-7-daw-audio.html

I hope this helps.

Barry

Hi,

I think the last few messages are quite interesting and informative.

I too have been playing with the VST option and have been wondering what we were actually trying to achieve here and I think these messages have crystalised my views.

Its seems to me that vArranger is a fantastic arranger - probably as good, or even better than many hardware arranger keyboards, and I don't think that point should be lost by making it into an all singing all dancing VST host like Cantabile or Brainspawn.   If nothing else the permutations and combinations that could arise could make it extremely complex, unwieldy and possibly flakey. Indeed I actually wonder how many people in the real world of arrangers will actually use these facilities  (I suspect very few!).

I also worry that Dan may possibly be going through hoops to add the VST support because some people cannot afford, or don't want to afford, an SD2/1000 and thereby make it more attractive to potential purchasers.    I do think alternatives are relevant in case the SD 2/1000 become obsolete - but the reality is that even after buying the vArranger program, an SD2 and a midi keyboard - the cost is still much much less than the equivalent hardware arranger keyboard.   Even old computers will work with this combination - but I have severe doubts about computer power once people start to use VSTs.

I think there is still a good argument for basic VST support - but not to a complex level.   Indeed as long as people can use programs such as Cantabile as a host (I think there is a free version) then maybe that should be the recommended route for more exotic users - i.e. vArranger should ensure that the correct midi data is transferred to allow e.g. Cantabile to work correctly.


My list for VST support, therefore, is very simple and would include the following:

1) An alternative and equivalent sound source to the SD2 /1000.  I actually think the SD2/1000 are really good. They sound great; have zero latency; just get on with the job without complex setup and don't need a beefy computer to run them.  A good example of an equivalent VST would be HalionSonic 2 - which I understand has a lot of sounds created by Yamaha (as Steinberg are now owned by Yamaha) and is not outrageously expensive for what it does. There will be others.

2) A special/specific VST sound source for one or more parts with the SD2/1000 doing most of the work.   An example may be a better piano, organ, bass or a synth sound.   

3) It would NOT include separate VST effects (other than those built into VSTi s)

I personally still think there is work to be done in making vArranger better (e.g. I would really like to see it have total presets or snapshots of all the settings).  If Dan really wants to make the program attractive to more people - if thats part of the motivation - then he needs to sort out the English manual as the translated one is barely adequate - and also make it a bit more comprehensive.  The support that Dan supplies is great - but I get frustrated that some things are only possible once you get an email from Dan or see an answer on the forum on how to do it.   Also the lack of a demo is losing a lot of business.  A demo is clearly difficult as you need an SD2 to really try it - but perhaps a good demo in the form of a comprehensive video in English (sorry 'mes amis' - but thats where the major market is) lasting say 10 minutes would be a lot better than nothing.   I know that an acquaintance of mine was interested in vArranger - but could not make out from the web site what it actually did - so gave up.  349 Euros is a lot of money to take on trust.

Sorry - I'm honestly not trying to be controversial or negative - this is just my opinion - and Dan will/must do whatever he think is right. 

But I repeat - this program is seriously FANTASTIC and well worth the money...

Cheers
Barry

Quote:    The B4 can be easily found if you do a little search

If anyone downloads unauthorized (e.g. cracked) software from suspect sites then I hope they have industrial strength anti-malware software installed on their computer - as these things are not usually cracked for the fun of it.      Personally - as an ex professional software developer - I actually hope it does trash their computer - well deserved!!

Anyway ...

Dan ...

I installed VB3 and it only just works - but there are some issues which I assume may be related to the beta state of your VST development.  I certainly feel the problems can be overcome.

Here is what I found ...

1) Initially it would not run at all - but I then noticed that it was trying to install VB3.INI in the program_files directory (on both Win7 and Win8).  Clearly Win7 and 8 get a bit unhappy if you start trying to write these things in these system directories.  So moving VB3.DLL to a non-system directory made it run.     I wasn't quite sure whether it was vArranger writing the VB3.INI file or VB3 itself - but you will know.

2) Second problem is that whenever I tried to select the Focusrite USB ASIO audio driver I get the message 'Error 14 - ASIO initialisation failed' .    It seemed to work with the  ASIO4ALL - at least it connected - but something at this point did something strange to my computer in that some (?all) of my VST synths seemed to get linked to ASIO4ALL rather than the Focusrite ASIO drivers normally used.  In the end I removed the ASIO4ALL driver and rebooted and all seems well.  However, I don't intend to put ASIO4ALL back as I don't need it anyway.     I suspect the problem was not caused by ASIO4ALL - but was caused my computer simply getting in a muddle because of all the different changes.

3)  There was an issue - caused directly by me because I ran it twice I think - in that I seemed to have two versions of vArranger Synth  (at least there were 2 icons in the notification area mentioning it).   So for my education - can you please tell me what running the vArrangersynth.exe actually does to the computer.   It will then give me a clue what to look out for in the future as nothing appears to get installed in the normal sense - so something must be happening somewhere and it would be helpful to know what.

Its looking good though.

Cheers
Barry

Hi Chaps,

I noticed the comments about VSTs and the use of various Hammond Organ VSTs.

The Native Instruments B4 is great, but unless NI have changed their minds then its no longer available - and for some years which is a real pity.   I tried the linplug one - but it really didn't do anything for me.  It I remember correctly (it was several years ago) then it seemed to be geared towards modern dance music.   

One alternative I found which is very good indeed (as good as the B4 in my opinion) is the GSI VB3.  It quite cheap to buy and the developer is, like Dan an enthusiastic individual - so should be supported in my opinion.   

Here is a link to the product with demos of the sound and I also see a downloadable demo of the product - so maybe you can try it with vArranger:-

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=24

And here is a rather long and over-bloated review on YoutTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44BP6Gnp0Hs

I hope this is of some help to somebody.

Cheers
Barry


 

Dear All,

This is my first post to this forum as I have only recently acquired vArranger (which I think is great). 

I don't believe this has already been mentioned - but if it has then apologies.

One of the problems with collecting styles from the Internet is that it is virtually impossible to avoid collecting duplicate styles and the result is a mess.

One solution I have found which helps is to use a duplicate file finder program.   Basically this digs into all the files selected and looks for anything that is internally identical (ignoring filenames and dates) - and then gives you an option to delete the duplicates en-mass.  What it cannot do is remove styles that are only slightly different but are really the same (e.g.  maybe someone has slightly tweaked a volume in the new version - so it sounds identical but is completely different internally at the file level). 

Anyway - in case anyone is interested - here is the program I used to do this task.  It is free for home use:-

http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/duplicate-file-finder/   . 

To use it:-

1) Keep a backup of all your style files in case you screw up.
2) Make sure your style files are in a single directory tree (with no other file types in the tree) - otherwise you will finish up processing other files on the disk - and that may be a tad undesirable.  I have a directory called Styles with sub-directories called Yamaha, Roland, Ketron etc. 
3) Run the program.   It may be obvious but you do not need to run the program separately for each style type  (i.e. Roland, Yamaha etc) as these cannot cause a conflict because they will have a different fundamental structure
4) Select the path\directories where the styles exist  (e.g. D:\styles\
5) Select [ x ] 'Look for all file types'
6) Clear [   ]  'Ignore small files'
7) Clear [   ] 'Ignore large files'
8 ) Select  [ x ] 'Ignore file names'
9) Select [ x ] 'Ignore file dates'
10) Let the program run - it could take some time.

You should then finish up with a highlighted list of duplicates which can be deleted.

NOTE:  Delete nothing unless you have a backup of your original files mentioned in 1) above and do make sure that you are not processing directories other than ones containing the styles otherwise you might delete something important.     

I believe it is quite safe - but use only at your own risk!!!

I hope this is of some use to someone.

Cheers
Barry