Author Topic: What is the right price for vArranger  (Read 33295 times)

Offline Dan

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What is the right price for vArranger
« on: November 28, 2012, 06:20:31 PM »
Hello everyone,

The forum is a little quiet this week, so I will ask you some economic questions...

1) For you, what is the right price of the vArranger software?

2) I would buy vArranger if it cost ... $USD only ?

3) I prefer to pay less in the beginning but pay for upgrades every years, as most of software editors are doing?

Dan

Offline pax_eterna

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 08:03:22 PM »
I would consider a cost of $125 USD for an initial purchase, and then an upgrade cost for each subsequent upgrade. No charge for any "bug fix" partial releases.

Or a purchase of $295 USD but with lifetime free upgrades. The more users you attract the stronger the community and the program become. Having an initial low entry price point could help that goal.

I will also make a STRONG suggestion that you port to the iOS system (iPad in other words). There are many MANY iOS programmers out there who are looking for work. Sure it might cost several thousand to develop the app (maybe nothing if you learn SDK, or go into a joint venture deal with an existing app developer), but the ultimate rewards are huge....in my view the iPad and vArranger would really make a perfect combination...


Dennis

Offline freeway

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 08:49:06 PM »
I have varranger now for over one year. ;)  I use it on gigs (which are not too many now by choice ;)) with the sd2 and play a non midi guitar.I would not go on a gig now without it.  8) The varranger has given me endless hours of pastime and enjoyment, so to me the varranger has been priceless.  :) All thanks to Dan  8)

Offline Tidom

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 09:43:16 PM »
Freeway and salvation to all who wish to contribute to the promotion of vArranger!
Freeway!
I'm totally your opinion on the pleasure that I used Varranger!
I personally use for 6 years Midi guitar to accompany accordionist!
At first it was with a Korg I40M arranger and in 2010 I replaced it with vArranger.
With experience on the one hand and progress vArranger other hand I met an incredible success like never before in my life so far.
Maybe you could try the Midi Guitar + vArranger?
No?
Tidom
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 09:45:46 PM by Dan »

Offline freeway

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 10:41:31 PM »
Tidom! I have thought about Midi guitar, :) but  I would not have any idea if it would be to my advantage to me, :-[ as I use the chord grid on varranger to create my own backing tracks,   ;)and would not know good brands and prices.  :-[

Offline pax_eterna

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 12:48:09 AM »
Can you guys please stay ON TOPIC!!!

Dan is looking for views on this question, not posters sticking in all manner of other information too! All that does is create a very confusing thread!!

jm2c

Dennis

Offline ivan68

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 09:38:15 AM »
Quite odd, but I'm figuring out that software arrangers haven't lot of fellows.

So, I understand that the price of vArranger is so high.

So, haven't buy it yet.

I'm only a music hobbyist and 349 is too much. But would be glad to buy it at 150 euro, free upgrades included.

Offline Bernie9

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 10:12:11 AM »
I bought vArranger at it's inception because I had an SD2 and this was a way to unlock all of the great sounds.  I must admit I thought the price a little steep, but took a leap of faith. There is no question that it has turned out to be a bargain, considering Dan;s many improvements, including less dependence on the SD2. The free upgrades, for me, is very valuable only because of Dan's quest for an ever better product.

As far as new sales is concerned, vArranger and Dan have become respected in the Synthzone community at least, and I am sure in other places also.  However, I am sure there are factors limiting wider acceptance.

1. Not everyone is going to plunk down $ 450 for software with no trial demo because they don't know what we know.

2. The price approaches the cost of a  mid level keyboard if you have to buy a controller and SD2(optional).

3. Another problem is what to do with present owners if enough R&D has been recouped to lower the price, or Dan will take a loss hoping to make it up with volume.  Maybe charging for uprades, as long as we are grandfathered in, but this is rather messy.

I think a demo and further development like a midi player that saves muted tracks and key is the answer.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 11:00:15 AM »
I am listening attentively to your good ideas.
By the way, vArranger users who trusted on me since the beginning will not loose anything, if we start a new commercial policy.

Offline Deane

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2012, 01:51:50 AM »
Dan,
There are many issues here, all related to how large you wish your business to grow.   A lower price would certainly attract more buyers but at what cost to you and the time you have available to maintain the software and keep it updated and bug free. 

On the other hand, I totally agree with Dennis about the iPad and porting vArranger for use with the iPad or Apple computers.   That alone would also attract more buyers.  I have not idea what that would cost which is also a consideration. 

Perhaps a more simplistic business answer would be a "modified" version with fewer features at a lower cost for the "hobby or home only" player and a full featured Pro-version.  Each with a different price. 

For Dan this is as much a "business" decision as it is about music.  Do wish to become a "volume" dealer or the producer of the best all-purpose Arranger software out there?   

Deane

Offline 4partmusic

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2012, 12:22:57 AM »
Interesting question.  I know it took me almost 2 years to decide to buy because I had tried so many products that just produced low end Yamaha and Casio arrangements.  I am just getting into this software.  I know by comparison I have three software packages that I use and upgrade regularly in no particular order. 1. Sonar X2 - I have had this software since the DOS days.  I have tried other DAW's but for the price point I always come back to this. It will cost me about $99.00 a year to upgrade which is pretty reasonable since the provide all sorts of new VST's and sound packages with their releases. 2. Band in  Box/Real Tracks.  I have had this product for years as well back when it was simply midi.  The Real Tracks has made this software invaluable simply because so many intstruments like steel guitar,harmonica, banjo etc.  cannot be emulated without real samples.  3. Varranger - Like I said I have just started to get into this software but have had a lot of fun playing with it.  In fact part of my problem with learning the software is I get to playing with the various styles and start having so much fun that I simply don't get to the serious stuff.

Now for why it took me awhile to purchase

1. The prices seemed a little steep for the software due to:
    > Lack of good demonstrations on Youtube of varying styles.
    > Didn't really understand the concept.
    > Even back when there was a demo I didn't have much luck getting it set up. Don't know why as it seemed pretty easy after I bought it.
    > Single man operation - This was probably my biggest hesitancy.  I had invested in a product called V-Sampler which simply disappeared and left a very bad taste in my mouth for smaller single man companies.  I while I pray nothing ever happens to Dan I do worry sometimes what would happen if he left or just got tired of doing this (Don't get that feeling that is where your head is at Dan, just a concern). 
2. Arranger keyboards seemed so much better.  I have since studied these and believe the Varranger software can emulate the major brands pretty well right out of the box.   A
3. The closest comparison of an accompnient software of any quality is Band-in-a-box and it does not have the live play features.  It is $269 to get started and normally will cost you $99.00 a year to keep updated. 

Lot of information I know but those are just some of my thoughts.

Bottom line, I love the software, I am not sorry I paid what I did, and the support has been excellent.

Thanks,
Terry

Offline Bartosz

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 12:28:17 AM »
Interesting answer.... I didn't write on this forum for the long time but I'm still watching.....and working on my project which involves Varranger.

Anyway, good point - as Varranger is driven by customers/users needs it's difficult to say who is suppose to be the the targeted customer of this product.
Is it designed for the beginner or home player? Don't think so - beginner will not spend fortune for: 1.laptop, SD2, Midi controller, Varranger in order to have something to play on. Home player? Don't think so either - he/she will buy new or second hand arranger which has loads of easy to use features such as songbook, music finder, one-touch setup.... no configuration required, no cables hanging around, no windows etc.....
Right, so only potential buyer would be professional musician with some computer interests and knowledge who wants to have fully configurable platform to fulfil his/her needs.
From the other side Varranger is very dependant on SD2 which comparing to current arrangers is not impressive and has loads of imperfections. I know that different sound expanders can be used with Varranger, however this would require hours of work in order to adjust instrumentation for the styles....and implementation of the MIDI might be a problem.
I like the idea of Varranger  - software which can play styles from Ketron, Yamaha and Roland and few functions which are not available in hardware arrangers, but I still can't see the big market for it.
Coming back to original question...

In my opinion Varranger should be available in two options - 1 - Basic. - Perfectly configured software to work only with SD2. Downaized in functions and configurations - perfect solution for home players who want cheap arranger. Cost - 50 EURO, limited software support

Option 2 - for professionals  - more or less like as it is now  , but configured for different sound modules - price unchanged. Full software support.

BTW - I can't find the link to download a new version of Varranger - Dan...can you send me a link?? I will send you a private mail about my project - maybe we can make something new based on Varranger :)

Regards,

Offline mujab

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2012, 07:02:47 AM »
I think that option 3 is the common between commercial plans for software marketing , also offering multiple versions for multiple prices and an option for demo .
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 06:38:43 AM by mujab »

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 12:54:32 AM »
I like this software, though not know him well. short demo was not working as I expected. I would like to know better, but this can not be done by yatube.  the price of the competitive product is 10 times lower, the interface is different but does the same job and is doing
quite well. once paid, updates are free . a maths-ketron sd 2 (€ 344) + M-Audio Oxygen 61 (€ 150) + a laptop (€ 700) + varranger (€ 349) = € 1500 approx ..... no way man .... korgpa500
cost around € 850, pa800 1600-1700 ..... with this price varranger - a lost cause

Offline jan1kow

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 01:57:05 AM »
   lubobul
you probably already have a laptop.
vArranger is more flexible and you can have back up if breakdown . You cannot afford to have 2xKorg for backup.
jon

Offline Lionel

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 07:13:53 AM »
My feedback would be....

vArranger is far more flexible than any other arranger that I know and utilises more than one brand style. eg...Ketron,Yamaha,Roland,etc.

Yes you pay upfront and have allstyles at your finger tips to use. With a few more changes to allow style alterations you have a powerful
arranger.  I would think some people don't have need for all features, so having said that then we could have as follows

1. A price structure for base users.
2. An upgrade price for more advanced features.
3. Existing users should be allowed say additional 2 years before an upgrade price applies, because who knows how far this could go
and it would be unreasonable to have lifetime upgrade. Of course this would be graded based on users time with vArranger.


This can get a bit complicated but with forum feedback get a general feel of what people think.

Edit: We don't have to follow the others as to what they do..be customer based and different..

Lionel
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 07:18:59 AM by Lionel »

Offline Tidom

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 08:14:40 AM »
Yes Lionel!
(excuse me Google translate is working!)
I testify that I am really happy to have purchased the license for the price of 349 €. After a few months spent in settings my little computer ASUS T91MT.
as follows:
vArranger = 349 €
ASUS PC = 454 €
Ketron SD2 = 345 €
For about € 1400 I have a stable solution can not lose its value.
With a more powerful ordinateuir vArranger allow me to use VSTI rich and send videos all associated with a song title.
Buy vArranger is to buy a promise of change.
Buy something else is buying something attractive but lose much of its value as soon as a new product is on the market.
Tidom

Oui Lionel !
Version originale pour tenter de parer aux approximations de Google Translate.

Je veux témoigner que je suis vraiment heureux d'avoir acheté cette licence au prix de 349€. Après quelques mois consacrés aux réglages de mon tout petit ordinateur ASUS  T91MT.
Ainsi :
vArranger           = 349€
PC ASUS             = 454€
Ketron SD2         = 345€
Pour environ 1400€ j'ai une solution stable qui ne peut pas perdre de sa valeur.
Avec un ordinateuir plus puissant vArranger me permettra d'utiliser des VSTI riches et envoyer des videos le tout associé à un titre de chanson.
Acheter vArranger c'est s'acheter une promesse d'évolution.
Acheter autre chose c'est acheter quelque chose de séduisant mais qui perdra une grande partie de sa valeur aussitôt qu'un produit nouveau sera sur le marché.
Tidom

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 09:34:57 AM »
program is strictly linked to the hardware of the computer. after a simple upgrade varranger stops. solution to this problem is also unclear

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 10:28:45 AM »
Lubolul, you can install the vArranger licence in a USB thumbs drive, so you can use vArranger on any computer you want.

You have got a Demo Version of vArranger 2 years ago, and now we don't have demo versions anymore, so we can't provide you a new demo version for your new computer. Sorry.

Most of vArranger users already own a Midi instrument or a computer or a midi synth and just want to add the arranger feature to their existing hardware.

349€ is not a small amount of money, but imagine how much money is 5 years of hard work for programming vArranger?

I also think that vArranger is not here to compete with hardware arrangers. It's just giving another option to some kind of musicians who see an interest on a good arranger software.

I myself own 6 hardware arrangers at home.

Thank you for telling your thoughts.

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 11:07:40 AM »
.....good arranger software-good for someone, flexible- to what.......
I understand the difficulty of creating a new software but you must understand that in this world need to be more practical and economical.
no hard feelings and with all due respect, but this software is not the icing on the cake

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2012, 11:13:58 AM »
As for the price - I think 1000 small secure sales are better than 10 but greater suspected. If this software is aimed at a wider range of users, it will be profitable

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 12:47:06 PM »
How many people can be interested to buy vArranger?

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2012, 02:19:11 PM »
I think a lot of people ... not necessarily be used only for business purposes. If the price is affordable, even ordinary home user who likes to play can afford to buy software... without his lifelong commitment to use because he paid a large sum.a product is competitive not only with the quality and with price. I do not wanna get me wrong, although I like what I see, I've made ​​my choice . and if I can express a creative idea, maybe it's time to have a light software and full version

Offline dhalan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2012, 05:08:51 PM »
Hi! I've just registered (my first post) :) and want to ask something, sorry if i'm offtopic.

I'm looking for a software arranger. my psr9000 is dead.
so now i got a midi controller, NI komplete 8 and ableton live and i'm looking for something to run these VSTs.
i got a demo from live styler site and a licence without samples costs ~30€.
since there's no varranger demo i was wandering what do i get for ~300€ more?

and is there going to be a change in pricing of varranger any time soon? or a demo?

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2012, 05:33:06 PM »
Hi,

vArranger will allow you to play your psr9000 styles.

vArranger is a stable, simple and best sounding software arranger, who plays Yamaha, Ketron and Roland styles.

Let me know if you need more information.

I don't think that there we will do a demo version, but maybe a cheaper version with less options and no more free updates will come in 2013

Offline dhalan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2012, 08:55:06 PM »
i really hope that there will be a cheaper solution.
i don't need the best sounding. i want to choose my sounds and VSTs that will be controlled by yamaha arrangements.
looking forward to seeing some more options in 2013 :)
till then!
best regards!

Offline Lionel

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2012, 07:01:50 AM »
Hi,

It seems most people want something to next to nothing and use an excuse to justify it.

If you can't see the value of vArranger it is because you have no idea of it's capability or just don't know how it works.

You take BIAB (Band in A Box) it has updates twice a year mostly to expand on styles at $100 US dollars.
Now do your homework...

Don't forget you gotta buy it 1st...

You want something for nothing then go get the cheapies or freebies..

By the way I own BIAB..and other software..


Lionel

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2012, 10:54:27 AM »
Lionel, the example you've given is not accurate. I claim to know all arranged software. software that looks like varrager (by function)  is Live-Styler and OMB10. I think the lack of demo varranger is fear of hacking intervention. I'm lucky few who have tried the demo and I can say one thing-to try, another to watch video on yutube.
even then, two years ago varranger was pretty well developed and very promising.

Offline dhalan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2012, 09:42:56 PM »

If you can't see the value of vArranger it is because you have no idea of it's capability or just don't know how it works.


i just paid 30€ for live styler and i'm hoping to link it to my VSTs.
i was asking what i would be getting if paying 300€ more to get varranger. stable is ok, simple is fine, best sounding is ?? i thought that varranger doesn't come with samples and needs something to reproduce sound, like the SD2.
seems like i don't know how it works, thats why i was asking for a demo.
if i'd know how it works and know it's value maybe i'd buy it, but paying 300€ for something i maybe don't like or need i not worth taking a risk for me. if i made a mistake with live styler... what the heck... it's 30€...

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2012, 10:12:46 PM »
Yes, the different options for vArranger is :
- use it with a Ketron SD2 => You will get a very good sound and styles compatibility out of the box
- use any GM/GM2/GS/XG hardware sound module
- use any GM/GM2/GS/XG software sound module
- wait some days for the new vArranger virtual synth
- wait some days more for the vArranger SoundFont support

The overall sound will depend on the solution you choose.
I will really put all my efforts to release this new virtual synth, so at least we will provide an option for those who doesn't own the Ketron SD2
And will improve the communication on vArranger's features

I am very sorry for all the frustrations here, and have a good resolution to improve things for the new year.

Offline pax_eterna

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2012, 01:00:20 AM »
Well, all I can say is this-

As Dan knows I was involved in a recent project and part of that was researching all the software arranger engines...sadly I did not get to try vA because the project funding co-ordinator thought it would add too much to the final cost (I thought this was rather dumb on a personal level, but I wasn't paying the bills ;D), anyhoo....I did try the others including OMB and Live-Arranger quite extensively.

OMB is crap to be blunt, oh it is not too bad in operation, if VERY limited in what it can do and editing is rather convoluted - but the interface reminds me of D.O.S. days!!!! Awful, and support was non-existent, price about $30...one gets what one pays for.

Live-Arranger was really modern in layout, looked nice, had sorta kinda VST support although still suffered from the Windows Audio Engine issue ( ie only one program can use it at a time) there was also the option to use Windows WASAPI mode (Windows version of ASIO) but it was ordinary at best. The MIDI implementation in LA was simply silly...the way it was setup was about the strangest, non-intuitive, non-productive system I have ever come across...about the only response I got from the programmer was "...if you don't like it, use something else.."

The VST support was adequate without being efficient and did not allow easy integration with the MIDI data generated or the MIDI arranger engine, especially if you wanted to use VST instruments for styles...you could get it to work, sorta, but in a limited way, AND it kept crashing every so often as well...And the PC spec was very high indeed. Quad core processor 12 gig RAM,  dedicated GPU etc etc..

Cost of LA - around $120 Euro... more than OMB, and yes better than OMB, but nowhere near good enough or reliable enough for live work.

So the point is you get what you pay for. vA is balanced rock solid, pretty damn easy to use looks good has really good MIDI implementation..and the support, what I rate as the single most important part of anything I buy, ALWAYS is of the highest level. Nothing is too small or too tricky for Dan to help you out with. I know of no other programmer (iOS, Apple-Mac Windows, Android) who is so open and respectful of user suggestions, and yes, complaints!! I do not include Linux in that as LInux is already a strong user support community and is in fact BASED on that.

vA is more expensive by quite a way, but it is one of only a few I have bought over 25+ years of PC use that I can truly say IS worth what you pay for it...

I commend Dan in taking a more broad view in his costing base, and I do think a cheaper version with few features, but all the core aspects and no free updates is worth pursuing. But the price for the full version with lifetime support is a very fair one when ALL aspects are considered.

Just as a "tangent view"......... Dan I do think that when you integrate Audio (VST support etc) that everyone should pay for that upgrade. It is a vastly new tool you are adding, almost a new program, and I for one would be happy to pay for an upgrade to an Audio version.

Dennis

Offline ivan68

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2012, 07:58:29 AM »
+1 for VST support (32/64 bit)!

And final price under 100 euro!

 ;D

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2012, 10:18:14 AM »
Thank you Dennis for your report.
You will love what is coming next...

Offline Lionel

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2012, 10:36:55 AM »
Hi Quick reply.

I have LiveStyler and find it restrictive and sounds ah well ??? not as I like.

It is also you pay for additional features and rstricted to base styles.

I found it hard to adapt too and that's me.

Lionel

Offline Bernie9

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2012, 10:53:43 AM »
One thing is for sure.  Dan cannot be expected to keep pouring in countless hours of R&D without compensation.  If he can't  come up with an alternative that will increase his sales volume, then, I agree with Dennis.  Major innovations should come with a fee.

I have tried all the others too, but insist on the best, which is vArranger by a mile.  Dan's ceaseless improvements have already justified the cost IMHO, but I am savvy enough to know that when Dan wins, we all win, and I want him to keep going.

Offline lubobul

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2012, 01:24:43 PM »
1 - I and many users do not want to convince us with words and pictures, how great this software.
2 - about LS seems that you have not know  well this software or you do not interested to learn the details
3 -it appears that people who advocate varranger are 3-4 .... they have a positive opinion on the entire forum for everything related to varranger
4 - What would happen if you buy a product and it does not meet my requirements
5 - I understand that hard work and effort are not free but how exactly did you decide this price
I could go on, but the discussion turns into an dispute
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 01:26:30 PM by lubobul »

Offline Brian

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2012, 12:00:47 AM »
I'm ok with the price I paid for vArranger2.

What do you want......an exceptional program free!!

cant be compared with LS BIAB etc.

Brian.

Offline Lionel

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2012, 07:05:58 AM »
To me botom line is..


If you think the price is high..then use the alternatives.
If you want it and think the price is high then what are you comparing it with... do your homework.
If the users are backing it up surely they must think it does it job for price..otherwise we are all blinded somehow..

Why the big discussion on something you don't have..is it because of what???
I want it but cost stoo much..Why?
The alternatives are not good enough for me?

Yes I could go on too...

Lionel

Offline dhalan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2012, 07:51:23 AM »
could someone do a video demonstration of vA like this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkbPJFZ53_I&hd=1
so that users who don't own vA could actually see what it can do... that might justify the price...
when i saw what karma can do with the motif, i instantly bought it for 200$... not asking anything about the price.

vA is like a mystery... here is a cool software, but to see how cool it is you have to pay 300€ and if you don't think it's cool, well... 300€ gone...
i want to know how cool it is without the risk of loosing my money.

i think there should be a model like in cubase or ableton. you can get a lite version for a small fee, just to give you an idea of how the software works and if you use it and need more, you can upgrade the lite version to a bigger one... at least thats how i got ableton... lite version came with my korg sos, i wanted more and upgraded to full version. now i'm thinking about buying the full suite upgrade when 9 comes out.

it's like
here's 50€ -> give me the lite version
hmm... i like it... need more features... -> here's a 100€ -> give me the full
man this is awesome -> here, take all my money and give me all the extras you got

if you cannot do it like a big company, there should be a decent video demonstration showing software capabilities...

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2012, 10:01:34 AM »
Ok, we will start with some videos

Offline littlebill

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2014, 07:30:44 PM »
Hello everybody,

My name is Williams from Brazil. I've used to play at parties, sometimes with my band, as you can see here: https://www.facebook.com/bandamovimentoinverso/photos, and sometimes alone using backing tracks. My setup is a Roland Bk-7m and a Fishman Triple Play, beyond other devices.

I've been searching for a software like vArranger for a long time, and today finally I got it and passed all day long trying to find more information about.

I've almost bought it however it's a hard decision in the dark, it doesn't have a Mac or iPad version, so I'd have to come back to Windows and the main reason for me to not buy it was the price, for a Brazilian guy is a lot of money.

I'll buy it but not now unfortunately, I'd rather wait for new videos while I'll try to read all the question in this forum.

This discussion is here since 2012 and we are now in 2014, so I have to consider that the price will not drop and even versions for others OS won't be released.

I have an Windows 8.1 running in a virtual machine, Parallels, I don't know if vArranger would work.

Sorry about my English, congrats for your software, it's nice to participate to this forum, I have a lot to learn.

Best regards,

Williams
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:23:33 AM by littlebill »

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2014, 10:30:51 PM »
Hello Williams, and welcome in the vArranger forums.

You can ask any questions about vArranger.

I am not working on a Mac or iPad version.

I have preferred to let the price at 349€, and offer a full service to customers. Lifetime upgrades and personal support for free.

vArranger runs with Parallels on the MAC, and it working ok with MIDI, but I don't think it will be enough fast for low latency audio.

You can try any other audio software on your Windows, and let me know if it is working.

So if you have a MIDI sound module like Ketron SD2, etc... I think it will be ok, but if you want to go the 100% software route, with soundfonts and VST instruments, it is better to install Windows on a separate Bootcamp partition, like I did.

Dan

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2014, 10:23:38 PM »
I know this is an old discussion, but I would like to chime in.

I'm a full-time musician from the Netherlands, I do mostly live band work, some studio jobs and I have a small job at a music school. I have never done much with arrangers and can't justify the cost of an Audya, Tyros or PA3X for how often I'd use it. Since I almost always play with band, I use my Korg Kronos among others, and in the studio I use my Moogs, Rhodes and a lot of VSTs. I'm only saying this to explain I know what quality is and I'm used to paying for it.

I am currently interested in adding Arranger capabilities to my setup. I've used OMB10 with my Kronos but the results were disappointing, sound-wise, and what styles I could find needed a LOT of editing. I heard good things about vArranger and so I came here to check it out. The price is hefty compared to OMB10 for instance, but I've paid at least ten times as much on DAW software and plugins over the last few years, let alone on hardware.

What frustrates me is not the price itself but the fact that there is almost NO information on the official site. Nothing that tells me the main features of the program, how to use it, or even the price until I click "buy" or manually dig through the forums. For people who are interested in this software, the home of it, this website, is almost useless. There is no demo, that means we're left with a lot of questions. The misnamed "screenshots" page gives a few hints. "Midi sync", what does that mean? Are you sending clock, MTC, MMC, what? In both directions or one? There is a vArranger software synthesizer, are there any audio demos, links to YouTube vids. 16 VST instruments, I'm assuming they're not included, but can I reconfigure them for each style or are they 16 fixed instruments? How many styles do I actually get? Can I edit them? How much? Can I make a setlist and put styles or song setups in order? Or can I make favorites? Can vArranger respond to program changes to select a certain style?

I don't expect you to answer all these questions right now, and they are only a selection of what is still unclear to me, but I think your sales would be helped a lot by a more informative and well written website, and (hopefully) some kind of restricted or time-limited demo.

Offline agaton

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2014, 02:20:43 AM »
The price of 349 € is 100% OK !!!

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2014, 07:13:54 AM »
Thank you for your vote of confidence. But I really don't know what I'd be getting and 349 is too much just to try something.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2014, 10:42:08 AM »
Hello,

I have listened to you.
I am just creating a new page, and started to write some of the vArranger features : http://www.varranger.com/features/
I also put 349€ on every pages :)

Let me know if you have any more questions.

For VSTI, you have rack that can load 16 VST dll. It's like having 16 synth with you
Then you right click on every track (arranger or right / left hand) and can select which VST will play this track.
Then save your song.
So it's 16 shared vst

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2014, 03:28:33 PM »
What frustrates me is not the price itself but the fact that there is almost NO information on the official site. Nothing that tells me the main features of the program, how to use it, or even the price until I click "buy" or manually dig through the forums. For people who are interested in this software, the home of it, this website, is almost useless. There is no demo, that means we're left with a lot of questions. The misnamed "screenshots" page gives a few hints. "Midi sync", what does that mean? Are you sending clock, MTC, MMC, what? In both directions or one? There is a vArranger software synthesizer, are there any audio demos, links to YouTube vids. 16 VST instruments, I'm assuming they're not included, but can I reconfigure them for each style or are they 16 fixed instruments? How many styles do I actually get? Can I edit them? How much? Can I make a setlist and put styles or song setups in order? Or can I make favorites? Can vArranger respond to program changes to select a certain style?

All answers are in the forum (english and... french) and in the manual, I know it's not very practical but if you want really learn on vArranger you can do it.

Offline BjayG

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2014, 06:07:26 PM »
Dear All,

To answer Dan's original question:  'What is the right price for vArranger?'  then the following are my thoughts:-

Dan clearly needs to make a profit (i.e. sell more copies) to continue to develop vArranger - which in all our interests.   So I feel that maybe 2 prices might be appropriate:-

1) As now - one off price of 349 Euros (I think this is the current price - but lets assume it is).  For this you get unlimited support, unlimited updates and access to the downloads section of the web site.

2) A cheaper option - lets say150 Euros.   For this you get 1 year of updates, 1 year of support and 1 years access to the download section.     A downside of this might be that an  unscrupulous person might be prepared to pass their full copy on to others - but there are ways of preventing this!    Additional years could be added at (say) 50 Euros per year or there could be a means up upgrading to the 'full' version for the difference.

Instruction Manual:  I've said this before - for software costing 350 Euros there should be an English manual.  But we have to be realistic here.  Dan is only a one-man band and English is not his native language - so an English manual is not going to come easily and quickly.  If we want new facilities in vArranger then I can't see how Dan can do both.   Maybe he needs some volunteers or perhaps even consider hiring a student during vacation to make the translation.

Demo version:   A lot of time and effort seems to be expended on the forum answering the question "I am thinking of buying vArranger - does it do....".   I cannot see why a simple demo version cannot be created from the current existing major version.     If this demo had ALL loading and saving removed (as in no capability at all within the program image), and came with one style only (chosen not to be too useful and locked somehow) then this ought to answer most questions about whether the program is suitable or not for people considering purchase.    I think the  only issue then is about sound selection - but maybe the built-in Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth would be adequate for the evaluation process if people don't have better  (always assuming this works with vA - I haven't checked).     

Anyway - just my opinion.

Cheers
Barry

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2014, 06:23:19 PM »
That's all I suggested to Dan when he asked the question, technically it is not simple, because he is alone.

It's good to learn French.  ;)

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2014, 10:29:01 PM »
Thanks all for your replies, and you for your efforts, Dan. I have more questions, but also some suggestions as to how to write the features page and explain different parts of the software. If you do not think me too presumptuous, I will get back to you with an outline/idea.

The main things I am wondering about right now are;
1. Where do I get styles? Are they included? Are they already optimized for the suggested sound modules? Or do I have to download everything from random websites and work from scratch?
2. Can I edit styles at all?
3. Is a 64-bit version of vArranger available or being planned? Especially important since I have Komplete 9 Ultimate, Addictive Drums, Trillian and a whole bunch of other stuff to use if I'd go the VST route.
4. More generally, why would I buy this software over something like One Man Band? What does it do that OMB doesn't and why is that important?

My main issue so far with OMB has been that I need to set up and adapt each style and each sound from scratch. I can make it play my VST collection quite easily using any host but it's a lot of work getting a realistic and good sound instead of a bunch of robots beating away at real instruments. If I'd buy an Audya or a Tyros or PA3X I'm basically paying for thoroughly optimized presets/styles. So is there a way to get vArranger, use one of those Ketron modules, and get going right of the bat with a decent collection of styles? If so, which module will give me the best sound? I don't need any lead sounds at all as I'll always have my Kronos with me and will always be playing actual keyboard-based sounds. I just need a quick-workflow good sounding solution with good accompaniments, that costs less than an Audya/Tyros/PA3X.

EDIT:
Sorry for moving this even more off topic. It seemed relevant to the earlier discussion, but now it has turned more towards my questions. I can start a new topic if you like.

For what it's worth, with the current fragmented info/marketing candy and no demo, I would probably buy vArranger right away if it were 150 euro on the chance that it would be a good investment. Based on recommendations and what I have been able to find on the site, the forum and YouTube. If I were completely convinced that this would be the ultimate solution to my arranger needs and I could try it out, I would shell out the 350 too. All my other above-300-bucks software comes with way more information and video material, and virtually all of them have demo versions (e.g. I own Sonar X3 Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ableton Live 9 Suite, NI Komplete 9 Ultimate, Waves Horizon Bundle, Fabfilter Total Bundle, etc etc).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:56:49 PM by sanderxpander »

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2014, 12:35:05 AM »
Quote
4. More generally, why would I buy this software over something like One Man Band? What does it do that OMB doesn't and why is that important?

OMB is a good software that I bought (year 2009) and I like it, but I never go on stage with this software, that is impossible, so that vArranger is build for realtime performance (it's for this reason I leaving OMB and bought vArranger).

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2014, 07:30:08 AM »
Thank you, but can you explain why? Why is vArranger so much better live? What makes it unique?

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2014, 08:06:05 AM »
VArranger is ergonomic as a hardware arranger and never bug, OMB is the reverse.

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2014, 10:26:58 AM »
Ok. I haven't run across any bugs in OMB11 yet. I don't really know what you mean with vArranger being ergonomic and OMB not. Can you give examples of common tasks related to live playing that are easier on vArranger? I seem to be able to select styles, play intros, fills, variations and adjust the volumes pretty easily on OMB.

I'm really not trying to market OMB by the way, but I have a really hard time figuring out why vArranger is better. Most people just say it's "better" and "worth the money".

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2014, 09:23:34 PM »
It's difficult for me to explain in english, it's not my language.
Perhaps my version of OMB is the 10, perhaps OMB is better now but in 2009 I haved a lot of bugs with OMB and with varranger no, it's for this reason I bought vArranger, at this year 2009 I find the software too expensive but now no, it's a very good price for a software professionnal.
With vArranger you can assign all controlers you want for each fonction it's one exemple why vArranger is better than OMB.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2014, 10:14:53 PM »
Look at the download section of the forum.
There is tons of styles available here for vArranger users.
Older styles are more GM compliant and will sound good with almost any GM synth
The idea behind vArranger is to minimize the need to have to adapt the styles.
For now there is no style editor when you can change the note events, or create style from scratch, but you can use some free software to convert midifiles to styles playable by vArranger.
In vArranger, you can edit any parameters of the style, like track's program change,  volume, fx, pan, expression, pitch range, pitch fine, ADSR, brightness, etc....
For 64 Bit VST, you can use the jBridge software with vArranger to use them.

I don't know well OMB, so I can't talk too much about it.
AFAIK, OMB is only playing older yamaha styles.  vArranger can also play newer (Tyros 3,4,5..), and also Roland, Ketron, Korg styles...

What special with vArranger?
I give attention to every detail in the styles engine and tend to push it to the perfection every day more.

You seems sincerely interested by vArranger and I understand your doubts. What you can do is : buy vArranger and try it for 30 days.
If there any things that makes you unhappy, I will refund you back 100%
I am not here to convince you to buy, but just see if you feel comfortable and love the software.

Please email me to get more detail on this offer

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2014, 11:34:14 PM »
That sounds quite reasonable, Dan, and I will likely take you up on that when things calm down a bit next month so I have some time to invest and try it out. I think the main thing I'm concerned about is if it can sound good enough easily enough. I read a lot about the Ketron SD2 here, and a little about the newer SD1000. I have a lot of software and a very capable computer. I am comfortable enough around VSTs and ASIO drivers to install a new sound engine and configure the routing and stuff. What I would prefer NOT to do is having to dig through every single style and reassign all instruments and edit them to get an acceptable sound. If this means I'd have to get an SD2 or SD1000 so be it, although I would obviously rather not add another 400 bucks to the cost. Knowing this, what would you recommend? Is it worth checking out this sound font collection? If you're not sure, do you know of anyone who I could talk to who is doing this?

Last question, I have indeed seen a lot of styles on the forum. What's unclear to me is if these are ripped from the original keyboards or the internet by users or if they have been optimized by you and if so, for which sound module (SD2, I suppose). In other words, is this a good basis to start with, like a Tyros or PA3X or Audya would be, or is this a ragtag user collection like I can find on the web elsewhere. This is sadly not clear from the website info (I would expect something like "ready to go with 500 top quality styles included already optimized for this and this sound module, thousands more available through our forums, shared by users").

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2014, 11:57:45 PM »
I suggest you to start with the Kronos GM2 sounds, and not buy any sound modules.
The styles on the forum are not optimized. They are original.
vArranger's job is to optimize the style playing depending on the style source, and the destination sound module.

I am here if there is a need to improve vArranger with some styles and the kronos

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2014, 07:17:58 AM »
I think the Kronos GM sounds are terrible :)
And honestly I would even replace some of the "higher quality" regular sounds like the drumkits with something like Addictive Drums. I'm really hoping it gets a lot better than that, but perhaps you're right and I should use it as a starting point. I'm just worried there will be too much work involved into getting an acceptible sound. Really I mostly want bass and drums parts (or even just drum parts!) since I don't have to play lead parts (I'll be with a singer) and would like maximum convincingness, sound-wise.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2014, 10:05:35 AM »
You have many options... You can also mix them together...
Usually, improving sound quality need some skills and patience. I hope you have some :)

Offline cirerenrut

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2014, 11:44:19 AM »
It seems to me that there is enough information around both written and in video format for people to decide that vArranger will compliment there musical expectations. I listened to the comments by other vArranger owners who paid the asking price and did not pick up any vibes that persuaded me not to invest in it.
Having decided to purchase vArranger I paid the retail price and not once have thought that the program was not worth what I paid, in fact it was enhanced by the service. Like others I have got BIAB and kept it up to date since my days with my old Atari at no mean cost, but vArranger is unique and to me you get what you pay for
I had a massive stoke 4 years ago which put paid to my playing ( or singing ) and I was devastated, but vArranger allows me to write chords, pick a style be it Yamaha, Roland and other manufactures, play with left hand ( that still works ) and use vsti instruments at will.
I think the price I paid was fair and affordable and after sales service remarkable, my wife would have paid double.
     

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2014, 01:32:52 PM »
Some, yes :)
But much of the reason to get an vArranger and not use custom backing tracks or Ableton or even OMB11 for me is to get a lot of good sounding styles without too much time investment in adaptation per track.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2014, 01:38:17 PM »
How it sounds with OMB out of the box? What operation do you need to do so it sounds good?

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2014, 07:07:18 PM »
Pretty bad using the Kronos GM soundset. Slightly better when I substitute regular Kronos sounds but to make the most of it I'd need the IFX/MFX engine and it's impossible to use single program changes per channel yet set up the 12 insert FX and all the routing and the multi FX and all that. Plus it'd be a lot of work. It sounds potentially good when using VSTs but that again requires a lot of work because something like Addictive Drums, even in "GM mode" doesn't follow the GM mapping all the way across the keyboard (so I get weird extra sounds or miss part if the pattern), plus a funky kit is not the same as a rock kit. Also, the bass part needs transposition quite often, and many more issues besides. I want a better sounding solution that gives me a good basic sound for many directly usable styles. Like a Tyros or PA3X or Audya would. Of course it's nice to improve here and there over time but I wouldn't want to be caught with what I have now.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2014, 09:30:32 PM »
I am afraid king of same thing will be with vArranger.
Or you use a GM compliant synth, and this will be pretty easy, but you seems to not like your Korg Kronos single sounds, or you start to mix many VST, and then you are really dependent on the VST capabilities and samples.
Or you go for the vArranger synth and create your own perfect soundfont, or find some...
But I am sure that you can tune some styles that will sound very good with your Kronos and/or VST
Even more than any hardware arranger

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2014, 10:12:19 PM »
I think the Kronos GM sounds are just particularly low quality, it's not a priority. The single sounds are great but rely in part on the excellent FX engine and setting that up over midi would require a ton of SysEx. It's just not really made with this idea in mind. I've heard the SD2 and SD1000 and they sound pretty decent to me, especially as a starting point that I could expand upon with VSTs. I'm just unsure how much editing has gone into the demos I've seen and how good it sounds out of the box just by hooking it up to vArranger.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2014, 10:14:46 PM »
It's simply out of the box in the demos.
I suggest SD1000, even if it is less "out of the box"
But drums sounds more real

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2014, 12:43:25 PM »
I think I will start with those SD2 soundfonts that were mentioned (since you have already invested some time in the compatibility) and see where I go from there. Next month I have more time and I'll get back to you on your offer if that's alright.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2014, 03:49:16 PM »
Good idea see you later

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2014, 02:55:43 AM »
I found a second-hand SD2 for 150, is that a good idea?

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2014, 08:27:05 PM »
It's a good price.
I personally believe more and more in the 100% software solution, because I am lazy to carry and setup :)

vArranger + Ketron SD2 + Ketron styles stay something that sounds incredibly well out of the box.

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2014, 07:41:16 PM »
I would also prefer a software solution, I'm just not sure I can spend all that time setting up everything. I tried again the other day and seemed to get better results with NI Session Drummer (instead of Addictive Drums) and Scarbee Jay Bass instead of a Sonar offering. This was using OMB though. Still, it seemed to vary a lot between styles so that means a lot of work setting up, and I'm not sure how I'd go about switching drumkits or snares between styles. Is this possible using vArranger using the internal VST host?

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2014, 08:51:02 PM »
You can obtain a good result with this plugins but you can't use this sound for all the styles.
For a gig with only 12 titles I use Ezdrummer, MM-Bass (or Jay-Bass) and a soundfont free for the guitar (and Pianoteq for the piano of course).

The sound of the vidéos are bad but you can make a idea :

http://youtu.be/SlaKRAkuf0I

http://youtu.be/09nacTwaex4

http://youtu.be/hJUhO-aeKjE


For more titles and styles it's impossible to mutiplicate the bigs plugins, you must use a plugin like Halion Sonic, Sampletank, Independence... vAsynth.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:54:34 PM by Lylo »

Offline sanderxpander

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2014, 09:31:21 PM »
Thanks, that does help. I'll be playing more pop/soul stuff but it's a clear proof of concept. Did you have to do a lot of instrument editing or style adapting to get this kind of result?

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2014, 10:22:11 PM »
Will you do live show with vArranger?
If it sounds very good, will you record for us a video demo? :)

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2014, 10:35:19 PM »
Thanks, that does help. I'll be playing more pop/soul stuff but it's a clear proof of concept. Did you have to do a lot of instrument editing or style adapting to get this kind of result?

I go in hollidays, after I try to reactivate some missed links for show you why I could make with vArranger and vsti.
For the gig you see in videos I work not very longer but the drums wasn't perfect.
For the gigs, like wedding or anniversary, I need 200 titles (much are in mp3 but a quarter with the arranger fonctions) vAsynth with SD2 soundfonts are my friends.

Offline Beresbart

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2015, 02:48:04 PM »
I would pay US$300 today for vArranger. But at US$400 and NO demo, I'll stay with my current setup.

Offline lee

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2015, 04:09:19 PM »
I think iPAD screen is way too small.
I think there is still way too much that is needed in vA2 to worry about another platform.

I am looking at using a 15" or larger touch screen here.
Even the Surface Pro is pretty small for me any ways.

Since I paid $425.00 I think it is enough for a long time.
I think the price is OK if many things keep coming to make it comparable to a hardware unit (T5 for example)

Once everything is there (subjective to many ideas) I think it will sell fine at that price...and later...a higher price may be OK.
Lee

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2015, 04:51:25 PM »
Dan,
Maybe a little off topic...but related for sure.

I think you have done a lot of good work with vA2.
I am still learning it.

I did take a leap of faith on buying it, but I have been following on General Keyboard Forum for a long time.
3 reasons I did:
1) I have had a couple TOTL arrangers (Yamaha T2, T4...Korg PA2XPRO), sold them, and at this time, my wife would be upset if I spent $2,000+ on another one as I still have not gotten my music skills very high. Later this may not be an issue.
2) I think there is good future for a TOP QUALITY software arranger, and I wanted to support your efforts AND hopefully help you in the effort by suggestions/bug analysis.
3) I think the sounds in TOTL arrangers...are great, but not all of them...and I wanted to use vst or sound modules for best sound for my style of playing.


OK, I think you could sell more of vA2 IF:
1) You have SERIES of You-tube demos that show all the features, demo the way things are done, and how it sounds with good sound module(SD-1000???) AND they need to be in more than 1 language, (English, French, German etc??)

2) So far I have great difficulty with the English manual. Content and the English re-conversion is not as good as we need. AND it needs to be up to date as new versions come along.

3) Show a few demos on you-tube of playing  a few songs all the way using vA2. Good video quality, good sound quality. Use a good MIDI keyboard that has lots of switches etc...not a hodge podge so people see it as a professional like setup. Maybe the Novation SL61 MK II???

Dan, you have created a nice product that you are still adding function to, now it is time to MARKET!
You still need to keep up full time programming, so maybe someone else could do the marketing??
If not you will have to do best you can.

Once I get a FULL handle on vA2...I will be doing a few demo's, and maybe even some tutorials. They will of course be in English, so that leaves out some folks.

If I see problems with the way vA2 works, I will be reporting to you on them, and help if needed to resolve.
I will also be reporting anything I see from my respect that is missing for me to use the product. Then you can consider if you want/can add that feature or change.

It's all in wanting this to work out for me, you and future customers.

I don't think the price is the issue...it's all I have said that is based on many years of marketing at IBM and my having had some nice arrangers and before that many different Organs.

Lee
 

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #79 on: February 05, 2015, 05:04:37 PM »
Thank you Lee. You are 100% right

I am listening attentively to your suggestions.

I can write in english, but definitely not talk in english in a video :)

I will explain to you everything, and you are very welcome to create youtube videos in english

Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2015, 05:48:03 PM »
Dan,
OK...yes I understand.

Dan, Once I understand vA2 very well....I would be glad to do some tutorial/manual so others can understand the product.

Also, since I had HW arrangers I can explain the different approach in vA2 to those that come from that.

I have never done a You-Tube video, but I think it is easy.

I have a good video camera for the work.

What way is best to communicate about vA2 needs/problems for me etc.??
Some of this may be best not involving everyone...which e-mail would be best that you check a lot??

You have my private e-mail...so you can send the answer to there.
Thanks,
Lee

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2015, 05:56:02 PM »
Just sent you an email

Offline v.muller

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2015, 01:35:39 PM »
The price is OK for me because I know and use the program,
but I understand people who do not want to invest in the unknown software.

If it cost 199 USD I am sure it will economicaly advantageous for you,
because you will have much more customers.

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2015, 03:14:59 PM »
Hello,


Studio One Producer = 195€
Halion Sonic 2 = 249€
Cubase Artist  = 300€
vArranger2 = 350€
Omnisphere = 399€
Forte Brainspawn = 499$
Komplete 10 = 499€

Roland BK5 = 795€
Korg Pro Krome = 895€
Yamaha PSR-S750 = 999€
Ketron SD5 = 1555€
Yamaha Tyros 5 = 3990€

vArranger with free update for life, do you really think it's to expensive for a software who make some features of all this products in one product ?
I think the price of vArranger in the middle of prices, not the less expensive but definitively not the more expensive.

Offline lee

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2015, 04:07:36 PM »
Lylo,
I agree...especially since Dan is still adding features so some day it will really have it all.
I hope he has plenty of programming time as some of the things on the request/wish list will really make a difference with some.
We need to help him promote it all we can, with demo's and improvements in the manual.
Lee

Offline v.muller

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2015, 01:06:29 PM »
Sibelius v7.5 = $600
Musescore = $0

Windows 8.1 Pro = $200
Linux = $0

Price of the software may not always correspond to its usefulness.
It depends on the author.

Offline Lylo

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2015, 06:31:19 PM »
And...  ::)

Offline Bachus

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2015, 01:32:29 PM »
Its not a matter of the right price....  I think the service and the upgrades Dan supports is unpayable and beyound any other product.  ( however the manuall needs badly to be updated). All insiders know. But potential customers dont

All they see is a rather expensive piece of software with no option to test it before buying it. I know Dan gives a full repay if not sattisfactory, but that doesnt really work for people that dont know Dan..   


Commercially Dan could learn a lot from other companies, a testversion could help convince people to buy the software.  Or a 20% rabat once or twice a year could pull them in. But lowering its price does not, espescially if the package including the support from Dan is worth every penny you pay for it..

Offline Bernie9

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2015, 03:07:27 PM »
Good points Bachus

Dan has done an amazing job in a relatively short period of time. It seems only a short time ago he was posting on SZ to see if there would be any interest in this software.  The manual, of coarse, was in French and people helped Dan with it including an English version.

I know a trial version was tried and retracted.  Presumably, due to piracy factors.  I certainly agree that the price is very well in line considering lifetime updates from a music software expert.  I consider vArranger to be far better than the others I have had, and it gets better all the time.

Bernie

Offline agaton

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2015, 04:02:38 AM »
With or without live-long support, vArranger2 is the best buy on the music equipment market,
in a field of music accompaniment software !!!

Very, very long time I was in the stuff of Live Styler arranger. Whole time I had try to made
pressure on the rest of the stuff, to make more open platform in Live Styler, but they were not
musicians, they were only "hard" programmers, without  sense for musician requirement !!!
Total opportune by vArranger2 !!! Here is the musician requirement on the frst place and program
is made from musician for musicians, not for computer programmers. It is so simple, and has so
logical structure, that one musician with little experience in this field, desperately don't need manual
for that.

349 Euro is really the minimum price for so one terrific and powerfull program, which can easily
shake off all actual software and last, but not least, also the top hardware arranger instruments. 
The double price of vArranger2 will be also acceptable for so one huge program. When one Live
Styler had price of 250 or more Euros, with all of its bugs (I have created one version without bugs
for me and my audio systems in this time, but official version was very labile and bugfull) than, the
vArranger2 can be, by all means, three time so expensive like last price of Live Styler.  Only what
one musician need with vArranger2, is very good Sound Engine (software or hardware), and he has
instantly the best actual arranger with tons of functions and possibilities. I made one Sound Engine
with about 100GB Sample Content in NI Kontakt format, for play with vArranger2. The sound is
naturaly amazing, but without functionality and flexibility of vArranger2, all that will be nothing. I make
to time 1 : 1 Multilayer Stereo Sample Content of Ketron SD1000 in SF2 format, with implemented all of
originaly Midi Controls from SD1000, and that will be play as vArranger2 Synth. In a test phase it sounds
very, very good, and with VST Effects better than hardware SD1000. It will be base Sound Engine to hear
immideately all Styles on vArranger2 and after that, eventualy change a few sounds with VST or hardware
instrument sounds. To time, only what I wish to be better in vArranger2 is the limit of 4GB SF2 in vArranger2
Synthesizer. I hope that is not the phisicaly limit, and that Dan can make this bigger !!! In this case it will be
possible to make one very good vArranger2 Synth Sound Engine f.e. with 8, 12 or more GB 24Bit samples.
SF2 platform is very complex to editing sounds (that is near to Emulator X3) and it will be possible to make
high quality studio standard sounds in vArranger2 Synth.

Who wont to play vArranger2 with hardware sound modul, one of very good choice is Ketron SD1000,
and for the musicians with luxurious needs, maby Roland Integra 7. Who wont to play with software sounds,
there are no limits for him !!!

So, vArranger2 need only one powerfull Sound Engine, and just a little bit Midi Controls tunning to have
one first class, ultra-stable and most flexible professional live arranger for so one beneficial price !!!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 04:43:23 AM by agaton »

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2015, 12:23:12 AM »
Thank you all.
I will probably create a 64 bit version of the vArranger synth, so no more 4GB limit

Offline semimi

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #91 on: February 15, 2015, 08:11:38 AM »
Hello Dan

What do you think about an Android version for the future

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #92 on: February 15, 2015, 05:53:02 PM »
Yes, thinking about it

Offline MarcinV8

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2015, 09:35:53 PM »
Dan, 64bit and Android is very good idea :-) I want it.

Offline jbg31792

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2015, 06:57:03 PM »
Why I spent more money to buy a new Prius-mainly to average over 50 mpg and because it is an extremely reliable car as evidenced by the review of other Prius owners.

For the same reason I purchased the vArranger: I save money by not having to buy new vArranger models every other year, because of the free upgrades provided to every vArranger purchaser.

EXAMPLE: SOLTON/KETRON modules and keyboards I've purchase over the past 30 years.
                Programmer 24
                MS40
                 XD 3
                 SD 1
                 SD 1 Plus
                 MS 40
                 SD2
                 MidJay
                 MidJay Plus
                 K8 midi bass pedals, FS6, FS13, volume pedal w/switches

I've spent over $15,000 in the past 30 years on the above SOLTON/KETRON modules and keyboards and accessories. In return, I've received Poor support from this manufacturer. New products sold with numerous bugs, too quick to rush new product to market. I was limited in my performance in what I could do when playing styles live.

With vArranger, the initial cost was under $400.00. The joy in working with a software program developed by a gigging musician was instantly recognizable in the way everything was laid out. And this was invaluable to me.

In the few years that I have been using the vArranger I'm playing at a much higher level now using the vArranger than I ever did using the SOLTON/KETRON modules and keyboards.

I'm using a MACBOOK PRO 13" Mountain Lion, and using Boot Camp running WIN 7, I have no latency issues at all with vArranger.

How much should you charge for vArranger?

The KETRON AUDYA KEYBOARD is priced at over $4000.00. The AUDYA 5 at $2800.00. The vArranger2, in my humble opinion, offers so much more. The song lists, viewing the chords scrolling live in SONG CHORDS while viewing the lyrics side by side on the MacBook etc, all housed within the laptop is so much more convenient to use and carry with you.

I would keep the free upgrades for vArranger. Knowing what I know now about the vArranger, I would have paid the same price for the vArranger that I paid for the MidJay Plus in a heartbeat.

On Amazon the MidJay Plus is priced at $2113.00

In lieu of what you are getting today when you purchase the vArranger version 1.17, I think the price should be $1500.00.

Also, to have a reviewer comment option available for vArranger owners to rate and comment on why they rate the vArranger so high. Like the Prius owners, I'm confident all the vArranger owners' varied reasons what they love most about the vArranger would be the incentive for new owners to invest $1500.00

John











Offline phillyjazz

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2015, 12:13:22 AM »
I am a long time Band-in-a-Box user.  I would gladly pay $200 for a version that just allowed me to change patches easily live from my Windows tablet (Surface Pro 3)  I have a Ketron  SD4 an just bought an SD1000.  There is NO good software for live use to change patches.  The SD4 at least can do that in hardware, but I would love to just have a simple interface for the SD1000 as opposed to bringing up BIAB and having a tiny UI to select patches, reduce reverb, etc.

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2015, 09:25:54 AM »
Hello, vArranger has a very nice interface to change patches live.  Every sound of the SD1000 can be selected and well grouped by 20 categories of sounds (PIANO, E.PIANO)
Buttons are big enough to use the touch screen.

You can also drag & drop a list of your 20 preferred sounds per song, right in front of you.

You can also do some layering (Piano + String + ...) and edit every parameter of the SD1000 reverb, pan, nrpn, sysex...), and save it for instant recall.

It also transform your SD1000 into an arranger, capable of playing Ketron, Roland, Yamaha and Korg styles.

Offline agaton

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #97 on: March 27, 2015, 12:00:39 AM »
Actual situation with very, very high level of vArranger2 software, with all
of updates and 64Bit version with support of 64Bit VST PlugIns, not limited
vArranger Synthesizer sample content, new tools like Solo Controllers and
last but not least, new Song Book capabillities, make actual price of vArranger
underrate. In a word, price of vArranger2 is too small for all what this software
can and advertise.

Offline cirerenrut

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #98 on: March 27, 2015, 07:59:04 AM »
I fully concur with Agaton's statement. If I were Dan, further releases of vArranger2 would be on an Upgrade basis. I want melody harmony, if Dan should implement it at some stage in the future, I would cheerfully upgrade and pay.   

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #99 on: March 27, 2015, 09:05:47 AM »
Thank you !
I will do the HARMONY feature soon ! Agaton will give me some gidelines on how they use the harmony feature in balkan's music.
I will do then something generic, for any kind of music

Offline lee

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #100 on: March 27, 2015, 08:29:23 PM »
Dan,
Just look at at the harmony features on Tyros 4 or 5 and you will see a very good implementation.
Then later maybe the ensemble feature...after we have the sounds to support it.
Lee

Offline agaton

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #101 on: March 28, 2015, 06:21:55 PM »
It will be one kind of "Ensemble" but much. much better, not so
hard like Ensemble. It will be not only for Balkans music, it will be
for all music genres. In a few days I shall send it to Dan and I shall
explane how it works. It will be very simple, but with amazing result.
 

Offline v.muller

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2015, 07:40:01 PM »
One of the very effective Microsoft's marketing strategy is the education pricing.
It can increase the number of customers.
What do you think about it?

Offline Dan

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #103 on: April 13, 2015, 07:56:00 PM »
Microsoft talks to 1000000000 of people. They have big interest that all students learn and use microsoft technologies for their future professional/personnal life.
I talk to maybe 2000 musicians. I don't think that such policies can be applied here.
vArranger is a very very small market

Offline mbaggio65

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Re: What is the right price for vArranger
« Reply #104 on: April 13, 2015, 08:45:36 PM »
Hi, to add my 2 cents:

I think the base price for the vArranger software is appropriate. Although I haven't bought it yet as I have to get a few other things in line first. That said, for this solution to work I will need not only the software, there is a new laptop, a sound module and as I am playing the accordion a foot pedal to use it effectively. All of this adds up. As I work in the software industry I know nothing is for free and a product should have the right price. Maybe an annual maintenance fee might be a good solution, or for major upgrades a low upgrade fee. Dan has a recurring income and we know the software will evolve.

On the other hand I don't see many genuine arranger machines. I have a Roland BK7m, I know other with Ketron's. I believe there is market for a software based arranger.  When I researched the internet I couldn't find many reviews or youtube postings. Well there are some tutorials, but unfortunate in French so not helpful for the rest of the world (no offence to the French here please). So everybody goes with what he / she knows. I am also participating in other forums where people complain about their arrangers or keyboards. 

Markus