vArranger or BIAB ?

[Pedros]

Hello,
I'm new here. I'm accordeonist and looking for software to make own backing tracks. In 99% time I play at home. I use midi and acoustic accordion, cubase and V3 sound module.
I am thinking about best solution in my situation. Maybe here is someone who use both software: vArranger and Band in a Box?
My main goals:
- great sound in cooperation with sound module V3
- possibility to create own arrangment with intro, brigdes, ending based on my chords progression
- backing tracks sounded like real band - not like pure midi file
Any suggestions, some tips?

[haweneu]

Hi,
i use V3 Accordionmaster XXL integrated in my DIY Reedless Accordion. But without any other software.

And also i use VA2 with my Wersi Spectra Organ as Masterkeyboard.
This is my favorite Software Arranger Keyboard Solution. But with VA2 i use Ketron SD1000 as Master soundmodule for all accompaniment and solosounds and my V3 Accordionmaster for special solosounds on my Upper organ Manual!

V3 Accordionmaster is very good for alpine music and Classic music.

You can use V3 Module with VA2 as only one soundmodule. But then you Must use an INS-File to see the Sounds from Accordionmaster inside VA2 Soundname-Display!

But with SD1000 you can play all Styles Form Korg, Ketron, Yamaha, Roland without Style  Modifikations!
With V3 Accordionmaster you must change Most Styles because VA 2 is Not adapted to V3 Soundmodules!

Best regards
Werner

[Pedros]

Thank you for your answer.
I try to understand...
When I find INS-file I must change most styles because VA 2 is Not adapted to V3 Soundmodules too?
Can I type midi settings direct to VA2 without INS-file?
Why SD1000 can play all styles whereas V3 must be adapted in each style?

[haweneu]

Hi,
Dan (Developer of VA2) has adapted VA2 only to VST Software soundgenerators and some Hardware-soundgenerators like SD1000, SD2 and other, but not for V3 modules!
The reason is that the most VA2 Users dont use V3 Modules!
So If you use Styles from different Brands with VA2, you have trouble with V3 Soundmodules! The accompaniment  often sounds not good!

And you must use an ins File if you want to select Sounds with their names from V3 soundmodules!

This ,,ins Files" are simple Textfiles and they do assign a Soundname inside VA2 Soundlists to MIDI PC and Bank MSB Messages for V3 and other Soundmodules!

For INS Files you can contact V3Sound!

Best regards
Werner

[Dan]

I think V3 has many different modules available, so please tell which one do you have?
If it includes a GM bank, you should be able to get some results with it, at least with some styles.
The question will be for the second drums track. Not sure if your module will react to the GM2 drumset on bank 120

[Pedros]

Dan,
I have ACCORDION MASTER XXL V3 Sound.
As I read Drum KIT is on channel 10. General MIDI sounds are in Bank MSB 1.

[haweneu]

Hi,
Yes.
Best regards
Werner

[Dan]

I can see in the manual that the GM Bank is on MSB 0, so it should be ok
https://www.v3sound.com/handbuch/V3SOUND-D-E-NL-I-ES-F-AccordionMaster-XXL.pdf

But in page 56 they note :

2ND DRUM KIT
After power on the drum kits are only available
on parts with active DRUM MODE. The default
MIDI channel for this is MIDI channel 10.
You can also set a second part to DRUM MODE
with a System Exclusive command

So the PERC track of vArranger will play a Piano sound instead of Drum sound, and should be muted.

Btw, I did not find the SYSEX command in the manual

[Dan]

haweneu, as you have the same module, you can try using it to play some styles. It should not sound bad if you mute the PERC track

[Pedros]

Good idea,
Werner, can you make some tests with styles with V3 and VA2?Maybe can you record something. It helps me know how it works.
Thank you
Piotr

[haweneu]

Hi,
Tomorrow i will do some Tests with muted Track 9.


Here is the Sysex for Part to drum! It is inside the Firmware doc from V3Sound and not for Download!

Would be nice if Dan could include this into VA2 as V3Sound Setup.

SYSEX  => F0H 41H 00H 42H 12H 40H 1pH 15H vv xx F7H

Part to rhythm allocation, p is part (0 to 15), vv is 00 (sound part) or 01 (rhythm part).
This SYSEX allows a part to play sound or drumset. There is no limitation of the number of parts playing drumset. Default assignment : part 0 plays drums (default MIDI channel 9) all other parts play sound.

Best regards
Werner

[Dan]

This is the GS message to select a drumkit on another channel
So try the GS mode in vArranger, to see if it reacts

[haweneu]

Hi Dan,
I think V3Sound meant this sysex! I found no other in firmware!
Will test it!

Best regards
Werner

[Dan]

The only difference is vArranger sends the GS message starting with F0H 41H 10H instead of F0H 41H 00H

[Carlo]

Hi,

I also use a V3 XXL-Module, and would love to see an adaption of this module in vArranger.

Best Regards,
Carlo

[haweneu]

Hi V3 Fans,
Today I made some tests with different styles and my  V3 Sonority XXL as second Soundmodule and a Ketron SD1000 as mastermodule! Masterkeyboard is my Wersi Spectra Organ.

All styles from different Brands work very well with VA2 and only SD1000!  I need no modifications in tracks or sounds.

With V3Sonority as only soundmodule i need to change some tracks and switch off percussion track to hear a good accompaniment. To much work for me!

With SD1000 it works out of the box without any changes!

So I ended my tests with frustration!

SD1000 is my basic soundmodule and V3 Modules are used for special solosounds like my loved alpinesounds, accordions, classical strings etc.

I think V3 Modules have many very good sounds and can used with VA2 if Dan does some adaption work! But he has to much work with the new VA2 version!

Best regards
Werner

[Pedros]

Dear Werner,
thank you for your test and quick answer... It's not well info for me 
Anyway thank you

[Dan]

Did you try in GS mode? What brand of styles?

[haweneu]

Hi,
Yes, GS Mode and Styles from Yamaha, Ketron.
And Percussion Track Off.

Best regards
Werner

[agaton]

I have tested V3 Sonority XXL with vArranger² in "SD1000" Midi Mode, and V3 Sonority XXL can receive all vA² commands
from "Drum Mixer" for any Drum peace (Level, Pan, Efx, Pitch...) same as Ketron SD1000 make it. Only one problem by
V3 Sonority XXL in "SD1000" Mode is that it has some delay by Style change. It can be that some SysEx commands cause this
delay. V3 Sonority XXL react also on commands from vA² Effects for SD1000 !!!

[haweneu]

Hi,
V3Sound and Ketron SD 1000 have different Dream Audio DSP but Firmware with a few exceptions identical!

So most commands that are GM or GS work.

But if I play a song only with SD1000 and then only with changed MIDI Out with V3Sonority, the sound of most Songs is perfect with SD1000 and only after some changes in track Settings it sound well with V3Sonority, but not as good as with SD1000!

This is clear, because Dan uses Sounds from all Banks in SD1000 and V3Sonority (only GM is the same) has a complete different Soundbank content!

So if one will use only V3SonorityXXL or V3AccordeonmasterXXL, he must make many changes in settings until it sounds good!

Best regards
Werner

[agaton]

...and than much better cause of a huge Sample ROM of V3 Sonority XXL (4GB Raw Sample Content).

[haweneu]

Hi,
Yes, but many work to do!

I prefer my solution with SD1000 for accompaniment and many sounds that are also very good and then additional V3Accordionmaster as my second soundmodule for alpine sounds, accordion, classical sounds and very good GM Bank Sounds!

I only miss with VA2 save and restore with sound/Song of the both EFX setup with my SD1000.


Best regards
Werner