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Nice tool for controlling v-arranger

Started by Bachus, August 11, 2019, 04:07:44 PM

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Bachus


Anyone got experience with this tool:

https://www.thomann.de/nl/elgato_stream_deck_xl.htm

The Elgato stream deck allows you to assign any keyboard shortcut to any key..
Since v-arranger supports keyboard shortcuts for pretty much anything
It might be a very nice key... you can makeyour own thumbnails quite easilly

You can make multiple layers of buttons, and switch easilly between them..
Or even change between programs..  like your daw and v-arranger..

https://youtu.be/qGJspzM-6cM


Dan

Yes this is nice, but I see more an Android or iOS app to control vArranger
I need to continue my work on TouchOSC

bluebeat

Ha ha... It is a clone of an idea that a Russian designer, Artemiy Lebedev had about 15+ years ago. Thumb buttons with micro displays...He even had some prototypes made :)

Try Xotopad for Windows I believe it has a demo. You can design layout and specific buttons / sliders  to work with VA.

Dan

Those piece of keyboards has always been very expensive, due to the multi screen technology.
I think today, someone can create for cheap something like this, with a simple full screen android tablet + transparent physical buttons on top.

Bachus

Quote from: bluebeat on August 12, 2019, 09:33:06 AM
Ha ha... It is a clone of an idea that a Russian designer, Artemiy Lebedev had about 15+ years ago. Thumb buttons with micro displays...He even had some prototypes made :)

Try Xotopad for Windows I believe it has a demo. You can design layout and specific buttons / sliders  to work with VA.

As Dan said, there are no micro screens in the buttons
That would be way to expensive
There is a low end telephone screen under these buttons
And the light is directed trough the buttons which kind of work like a magnifying glass

This results in a quite low cost production process..

I did some more reading on this
Seems the creators refuse to add midi calls to this
Despite a lot of pressure from the music community..

So since there is nothing secret about this
I think there will soon be another company making a midi version from this..

Dan

Yes

I have done some progress with the TouchOSC  iOS / Android app
I am adding direct support of this app so everyone can control vArranger from its phone / tablet via wifi
You will be incredibly impressed by what can be achieved !

I am now designing few screen layouts for tablets, and create an OSC protocol in vArranger

This is so cool !

Jamkey

Hello dear Forum-members,

Today I recieved this Elgato stream deck.
It works very genial in all my Windows-Applications but NOT in vArranger.

I can control every item in the Controllerlist with my normal USB-PC-keyboard, but vArr. doesn't see this Stream Deck.
No reactions at all ......

Regards.

Dan

 You probably need their program to set up every key, so it sends a simple PC key.

Jamkey

Hello Dan,

I configured the Stream Deck with their program and this program stay's launching in the background, as required.
For example the azerty alphabetic characters are programmed in 6 Stream Deck keys.
When i open the Windows Notepad-app, i can type these azerty characters in Notepad with the Stream Deck keys.
So i am surely this Stream Deck device works fine in my Windows 10-64bit.
But when i open the vArranger-controllerlist there is no reaction at all when i press one of the Stream Deck keys.
vArranger doesn't recognize any Stream Deck action.

Best Regards!

Dan

I don't know... You can try when closing they program?
You can ask them why the keys are not recognized in vArranger (that hook the keyboard keys globally)

Jamkey

I am searching for a solution.
But anyway, thanks for your attention !

Best Regards,
Jamkey.

Darius

I have also bought an ELGATO Stream Desk. It is a great device for musicians. If you wonder why, I recommend to read the product review in Audiofanzine - it is in French:
https://fr.audiofanzine.com/autres-peripherique-informatique/elgato/stream-deck/editorial/tests/test-du-elgato-stream-deck.html

As reported by Jamkey I also get trouble using the Stream Desk with vArranger.
A key pressed on the device makes the Stream Desk software generate a key stroke. Unfortunately vArranger does not recognize this key stroke.
The exact same procedure runs fine with 3 other Music softwares which I have tested (Steinberg-Cubase10, zen.Audio-ALK2, BOME-MIDI-Translator).

Some details :
StreamDesk can generate Text or it can generate HotKeys.
Using Text can not work with vArranger. vArranger needs key strokes.
So I have tried to send a HotKey, which is explained here : https://help.elgato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028234471-Elgato-Stream-Deck-System-Actions
Problem: vArranger does not "see" this Hotkey.

I face the same Problem with vArranger if I use BOME-MIDI-Translator to generate a "Physical key" : vArranger does not recognize it.


If I use Cubase 10 or zenAudio-ALK2, both softwares recognize easily a key stroke
generated either by
StreamDesk or by BOME-MIDI-Translator.

Therefore there is something specific about the way that vArranger scans for key strokes that makes it currently not suitable with StreamDesk and possibly with any other "software-generated-KeyStroke".  That´s a problem for me as I find that the combination of StreamDesk with my Nord Keyboard and vArranger would be ideal - see picture.

Darius

Dan

 vArranger directly receive the keyboard keys from the hardware before they come to any software.
You need to close the elgato software, and see if vArranger then receive some keys


Jamkey

Hello,
Today, after 3 days of searching and trying  :-\ , i found a solution.
vArr doesn't see the Streamdesk-keystrokes because the vArr-GUI is always highlighted after each Mouse- or Touchclick.
I resized the vArr-GUI a little bit, just that much till the Win-Taskbar is visible under  the vArr-GUI.
Now, after a click on the taskbar vArr isn't highlighted anymore and recieved the Streamdesk-keystrokes.
Only one negativ thing......, after each Mouse- or Touchclick in the vArr-GUI you have to click on the taskbar again so vArr isn't highlighted anymore.

Maybe Dan can find a solution for that "Highlight"-issue ??

Best Regards, Jamkey.
(finally playing music again  ;D ;D )

Dan

Every window program that you click on get the focus and become the top screen....

Darius

#16
Hello Dan,
the Elgato Software runs as a Background Service for the communication with the USB deck. It appears as an icon in the task bar. If this gets closed, then the communication with the deck is stopped.

I confirm the findings of Jamkey : if vArranger gets resized (no full screen) AND the focus is on another application (ex: Windows Desktop, Windows taskbar, Notepad, or any application running) then the keystroke from StreamDesk gets recorded in vArranger.
It works as long as the Focus is not on vArranger. If I select another song by clicking in vArranger for example, then the keystroke does not work any more, I need then to click "somewhere else" on the Windows Desktop to get the keystroke recognized again. To my opinion it is not practicable.

For all,
here is a possible workaround for those interested in getting the Elgato StreamDesk work with vArranger (or any Software using MIDI). It is a 2 step process, therefore not as fast as Keystrokes, but it is functionnal. My proposal is for Windows and requires some basic programming.
1- assign the function called "open" to your StreamDesk button. "Open" is designed to start a program. In this case the program is a batch (.bat) file that you create yourself. The batch file sends a MIDI code thanks to the very useful SendMidi programm (https://github.com/gbevin/SendMIDI). The MIDI data is sent to a virtual MIDI port, which you can create with LoopMIDI for example (https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html).
2 - use the MIDI codes (instead of keystrokes)  to control functions in vArranger.

Example of syntax: sendmidi device "loopMIDI" raw hex BE 31 01
this generates a Control Change (B) number 31 on channel 15 (E), with value 01.
Then in the next Batch file you can use BE 32 01, BE 33 01... anything really because you use a virtual port.
The programm "SendMidi.exe" must be in the same Folder as your batch files.
Be aware that SendMidi does not tell you if you write a mistake in the code. I recommend to use a MIDI monitor (there is one in vArranger) to check that your batch files generate the MIDI codes that you expect. Do not forget to open the virtual port as additional MIDI IN in vArranger!

Darius

Dan

When the keystrokes does not work anymore from Elgato, do they work from your PC Keyboard?

Jamkey


Dan

Strange...  Do they have any support contact?

Jamkey

Only a FAQ-list on there website ....
Otherwise Phone to Amerika.

Jamkey

@ DARIUS,
I have tryed your suggestion about Sendmidi.exe, many thanks for that Tip.
I couppled a Streamdeck-button with batch-file with commando:
QuoteSTART C:\Sendmidi\sendmidi.exe dev LoopMIDI ch 16 on 60 64
So wenn i push the Streamdeck-button Sendmidi.exe generate a note-on C4, Vel 64, so far so good.
The Batch-file is executed IMMEDIATLY, but it takes 1,5 seconds before the C4-note is generated....

Any suggestion why it takes so long ?

Best Regards !


claudio


Darius

@ JAMKEY
In my case wenn i push the Streamdeck-button I get the MIDI data sent within half-a-second or less.
You have tried : "START C:\Sendmidi\sendmidi.exe dev LoopMIDI ch 16 on 60 64"
I suggest to try : "sendmidi dev LoopMIDI ch 16 on 60 64" (with sendmidi.exe in the same folder as your batch file)
Darius

Jamkey

Today i have make some tests with the cmd-command.
It works much faster if i run the cmd.exe in the background and type the commands
with keystroke-strings.
Every Streamdeck-button can send a different keystroke-string, automatic followed by ENTER.

Best Regards !