vArranger with Yamaha moXF6

[amelie2805]

Hello,
I try to get vArranger running with my Yamaha moXF6. For MIDI Out I'm using the MOTIF XS option. I can select the voices for the right hand at the right column and via the INS button. It sounds good. But when I try to play a style or even a standard GM MIDI file it sounds horrible. I guess the wrong voices are selected. I have seen a nice demo on Youtube playing Tyros styles with the moXF with vArranger. What am I doing wrong?
Regards,
Joerg

[Dan]

What style are you playing, yamaha? rolanf? korg? ketron?

[Gerard]

I believe you have to select the GM Bank on the MOXF6.

[amelie2805]

@Dan: I play Tyros styles.

@Gerard: How do I do this?

[Dan]

You can solo every track of the arranger, and see what track is not sounding good

[Gerard]

It is on page 14 in the manual.
There are 2 bank select buttons.

[amelie2805]

Gerard, thanks. I can only use these buttons when I'm in Voice Mode. When I then select the GM bank the moXF plays only track 1 of a Midi file, but with the actual selected voice of the bank.

[Dan]

I think it is called SONG mode to get the 16 channels

[amelie2805]

Yes, but in SONG Mode I can't select the GM bank with the buttons mentioned. I think the voices should be selected automatically by the Bank Select/Program Change information in the MIDI file or style.

[Gerard]

I use a Motif XS rack, and I put it in MULTI MODE and select the GM bank.
I do not know what MODE on the MOXF you need to set it to.

[moessieurs]

Hi , you need to be in song mode, to initialize a song in GM mode :
Song > Mixing > Job
F1 Init
Set GM

After, there is no more information in the manual for the action to done, it must be "enter" to fix the setting and pass the mixing in GM Mode if it's like on the Motif XF, here the Motif XF screen  :



After enter to fix, press store, enter and yes to save the mixing, name your song "vArranger", press store, enter and yes to save the song.
Reload the style on vArranger, try to play and tell us if it's work.

If yes, use this "song" when you play vArranger.

[amelie2805]

Thank you very much Joel. It worked. You made my day. Now I have to tweak the voices a little bit, according to your tutorial. I think this will keep me busy for a while. Do you have preprogrammed tweaks so that the Yamaha Styles use "automatically" the better sounding specific Motif voices instead of GM.

Another question: When I play specic Motif voices like "Tenor Growl AF1" I can influence them during live play on Motif with the buttons "Assignable Function 1/2". Is it possible to do the same, when I play via vArranger?

[moessieurs]

Great.
No, it's not possible to customize "automaticly" to have the best voices other than GM voice for styles.
You need to do it yourself, style by style, use my tutorial "Customize styles vArranger2 for XF series" to done it :

http://www.moessieurs.com/style-custon_varranger2_xf.html

Be carefull about the preset bass sounds, Yamaha decide to have preset bass sounds one octave down than GM standard to have an easy playing on Performances for 61 notes keyboard (in GM mode of course it sound good), great to play performances, but not so great when you played with vArranger.
If you want to use preset voices bass sounds for styles than to use GM bass voices, the best way is to customize your dedicated  "song" for vArranger with mixing voices you made with your favorite preset bass sounds, i explain how to done it in my tutorial.

For AF1/2, yes you can use them, but here also you need to customize your vArranger specific song in the mixing to receive AF1/2 only on right voices, and perhaps only on the right voice not on the second voices.
Go on mixing> edit part> part11 (witch is right voice 1) > [F5] RCV SW
Be sure that AF1/2 is received for this part.
Be sure after that the others part do not received AF1/2.
Store your mixing and store your song.
Why, because if you use AF1 for the trumpet mute, if a style voice use also AF1 for another thing, it will also receive it and change, not sure that it will be a good result when you play.

Check also insert effect on mixing to have the best render for each voices.
In my tutorial "Take vArranger2 hand XF series", i explain this on chapter "It drives well, but you feel it is not optimum:"

http://www.moessieurs.com/varranger2_prise-en-main-xf.html

Use also param with voices for each part .....
So read and apply completly my tips to have the best sound to play and take fun to play vArranger with your MoXF

[charlys44]

Very nice tutorial for vArranger! Too bad it is only in french. And Google does not a good job in translating it. 

http://www.moessieurs.com/style-custon_varranger2_xf.html

[moessieurs]

I have only two hands, one head and one life, it's not possible to duplicate Moessieurs in English, more than 700 pages, all is done on my free time out of work
So google translator is not perfect but it allow to understand the base.

[charlys44]

Yes, I do understand. Great job anyway! 

[moessieurs]

Thank you

[amelie2805]

Any idea on how to make the GM setting permanent. After power off the moFX forgets the setting, even though I saved the mixing under the song name "vArranger". The GM tick box is empty again.

[moessieurs]

Two options :

You have save the mixing, put the name and don't save the song, after saving the mixing, putting the name,  you must save the song.

Second option, you have done it but you have the auto factory set function "on", at each power "on" it erase all the user data to reset the MoXf to factory data.

Check on utility, job,
Be sure that the "power on auto" box is empty.
If no go on it and uncheck it, press store to store this setting.

[amelie2805]

Still won't work.
It is not the second option, I checked.

Maybe the GM setting is actually stored with the song (how to check?), but the problem is a different one. I noticed that vArranger obviously sends at start up some commands to the moXF, changing some settings. I don't know which ones, but maybe some that are connected with the "GM" setting. I found it out, because after the start up of vArranger the moXF shows in the display for SONG/MIXING an "E" in the upper right corner, indicating that there are changes, that have not been saved. Same is true for the UTILITY display. A have to put LOCALCONTROL to off again manually and apply the "GM" setting again manually, then it works.

[moessieurs]

vArranger send voice "data" (GM program change), it's a normal way to have the "E" on song/mixing.
Strange, for me on the Motif XF, the song stored stay stored with the good settings, and  the local control stay to off.
Be sure to store the Utility settings by pressing store, be sure to store the song with store, enter and yes after storing the mixing (to check, if you gone to another song and come back to the varranger song, all settings must stay in the same way).

[amelie2805]

Maybe a problem with the firmware?

How can I check on the moXF that the song "vArranger" is still on GM setting? Right now I try it out by playing a style from vArranger.

[moessieurs]

In Mixing,  voices view (F2), all voices are set to GM, not to preset or user.
There is no screen shot in the manual, i cannot check it how it's screen.

[amelie2805]

A firmware update seemed to solve both problems. The storage of the GM voice and the localcontrol issue. Thanks for your support.

[moessieurs]

Great, thank you to report this

[Dan]

As I don't have any Motifs KB, I can't really help so much in depth.
Nice to see that the community is helping
Thank you moessieurs

[moessieurs]

You're welcome Dan

[dehn]

Hallo,  ich kann leider nur in deutsch schreiben.

Mein Frage zum neuen vArranger-Programm Vers.1.17.98:

Änderungen im Style-Mixer (z.B. Expression, Volumen etc.) werden vom Programm nicht übernommen und und nicht gespeichert.

Ich benutze Styles vom Tyros 5. 
Mein Soundmodul ist ein Yamaha MOXF, angeschlossen an Asus-Laptop (Windows 10).

Ich  habe die Tutorials von "moessieurs" studiert, leider gibt es zum Speichern keine Hinweise.

Was muß ich tun?

Ich möchte zwischen Main A, B. C und D unterschiedliche Volumen, Expressions etc. für die Style-Instrumente einstelln !


Gruß   Manfred

[moessieurs]

Sorry, i do not understand deutsch.

[dehn]

I am using the program "vArranger Vers. 1.17.98".

When I change settings in the Style-Mixer (e.g. expression, volume etc.), the program will neither adopt nor save these settings.

I use the Yamaha styles of the Tyros 5. My sound module is a Yamaha MOXF which is connected to an ASUS laptop (Windows 10).

I have read the tutorials from "moessieurs", however, there is no advice regarding an option to save the settings I made.

My intention is to apply different settings (volume, expressions etc.) for the individual style instruments separately between Main A, B, C and D.

How can I do this?

Regards

Manfred

[Dan]

Moessieurs, do you know if the Motif series can react to the XG DRUM SETUP sysex messages?
http://www.studio4all.de/htmle/main93.html

Or the GM2 way : http://amei.or.jp/midistandardcommittee/Recommended_Practice/ca23.pdf

If yes, I will maybe add this in vArranger...

[moessieurs]

Thank you for the translation.
The settings for styles must be saved for each vArranger style, not on MoXf mixing.

Dan, i don't think so for XG, MoXf  or Motif series recognize GM not GM2.

[dehn]

@Moessieurs
When I change settings in the varranger-Style-Mixer (e.g. expression, volume etc.), the varranger Style-mixer will neither adopt nor save these settings.

[moessieurs]

Hi, you have on this Moessieurs page some examples of saving right voices, song on vArranger :

http://www.moessieurs.com/Motifs/right-voices_varranger2_xf.html

Use the google translator tool on top banner.

[dehn]

I think, you did not understand what I mean.

When I right click on a channel strip, a menu will appear. On the bottom of the menu it says "style mixer".
When I click this field "style mixer", a work sheet "style mixer" pops up.
Now I can fill in new figures (new settings) in this work sheet, but these figures are not being saved in the User Style.

Because when I open the same user styles again after closing, it contains only the previous old figures.

My question is, how to save the work sheet "Style Mixer" after filling in my own settings (figures). Where is the button or the command to permanently save the edited user style?

Moessieurs, I cannot find an explicit information regarding this issue in your guide, can you help?

Regards

Manfred