vArrager with VST

[axmaster]

Hallo,
I'm newbie with MIDI technology. Right now I'm using Hypersonic 2 to play some piano or organ on my M-Audo Oxygen49.
I've found vArranger and m interested in it. I have read that it is best to have a hardware module (eg KetrobSD2), but the purchase of the module and vArranger exceeds my budget   

Is it possible to use my Hypersonic 2 as a source of the sounds? I'm not familiar with the technology MIDI and my goal is to play from time to time a few songs using Yamaha style (sty files). I'm interested let's say PSR-3000 sound level. It will be different songs: ballads, rock, dance, and I would not want too much rummaging in the settings. I just want to sit down, choose style and  start playing

Can someone more experienced would prepare the brief instructions to me what I'd have to do to reach my goal.
At the moment I have the Oxygen49 keyboard with usb cable, laptop with ASIO4ALL and Hypersonic 2 if the configuration is not difficult  I'll buy the vArranger

[Dan]

You can do this, and it is easy to do...

We will be there to help you to setup everything

Dan

[axmaster]

Is it mean that I'll get support with the lincense - sound nice 
Maybe last question before purchase after we finish configuration, do I need changing something in the Hypersonic instruments configuration?
Scenario: I'm playing on disco style, after few seconds I'm changing style to rock one so for eg. drums shoud change automaticlly - is it works like that, or I need manually change drums set.

[Dan]

If I remember well, hypersonic has only 1 drum set

[Pekilik]

No, hypersonic 2 has many drum set's, but outside GM mode....

[charlys44]

I try to use HyperSonic 2 as main sound source. It does work somehow, but the sounds are far away from a "General Midi"-setup. Selecting something from the right sound bars does change the sound, but there are only a few sounds available in each group. And most of them do not sound like their description on the button label.
I try to make the vArranger styles work. Do I need a INS-File for that?

How does vArranger get knowledge of the possible sounds of the VST plugin? Does it automatically create buttons on the right for those sounds?

[Dan]

Set vArranger MIDI OUT in GM2 mode

Unfortunately, Hypersonic 2 has a limitation, that you can only call 128 GM sounds + One drum kit in Hypersonc's GM mode from the outside

[charlys44]

> Set vArranger MIDI OUT in GM2 mode

I have already set it to GM2 mode. I understand that we should use GM2 as long as we don't have external (hardware-) synths.

Can you tell me how the list of sounds/instruments on the upper right side of the vArranger screen is build? Is it a dynamic list or is it fix coded? Can I configure this list somehow?

[Pekilik]

You can use hypersonic sounds outside GM mode, but you must insert this string in ini file in vA2 data folder:

[Custom]
ForceSendBank=1

and vA2 will change sound in hypersonic without problem....

[Dan]

No.... don't do that...

Let me try Hypersonic on my previous computer...

[Dan]

OK !

Hypersonic 2 can work in 2 modes (in Hypersonic Setup page)

- GM MODE ON :
You can only select 128 sounds by midi program change
The 128 sounds are following the GM rules, so you can load styles and it will sound good directly (almost)

- GM MODE OFF :
You can select all the Hypersonic 2 sounds by midi program changes.
To change the sounds from within vArranger, you need to right click on a track, and then select SOUND EDIT, then, on top of the window, you can manually change the BANK 0 , BANK 32 and PROGRAM CHANGE of the track
I have noticed that the BANK 0 (MSB) is not used by Hypersonic.
To change the bank, use the BANK 32 (LSB) and Program change
So this mode is better, to be able to use any Hypersonic sounds, but you loose the GM compatibility.
You need then to reassign every tracks of the style to select the correct sounds

If we can find or create a Sonar INS (Instrument Definition File) of Hypersonic 2 sounds, this will help a lot to select sounds of Hypersonic 2 from within vArranger

Once sounds are selected in vArranger, a SAVE SONG, or SAVE SOUND will allow you to recall everything in one clic.

Dan 

[Pekilik]

Yes this is right answer, but you must insert this string in ini file because if you have one sound with same LSB but different PCG vA2 will not reset LSB and
hypersonic will not set right sound, because is important to insert this string in ini file....

little suggestion for Dan, I see this problem in sf2 bank for each style format,
for exsample: if I have one drum set for Roland format with 121.64.8 (msb.lsb.pcg), and than I change style on one style from Korg format which have the same msb.lsb.pcg 121.64.8,
vA2 will not change previous instrument used (renamed) for Roland format because next instrument have the same msb.lsb.pcg,
I know that is rare case but it is possible to happen...

regards and hapy new year....

[Dan]

I have just tested Hypersonic 2 with same LSB and different PCG, it works OK with the vArranger VST host

To be able to use the multi format SF2, you need to use the vArranger Software Synthesizer.
I have just tested to change a sound from one set to another one with the same msb.mlsb.pcg in another set, and it seems to work ok too

[charlys44]

Thanks alot for the answers. Yes, I think we would need a Sonar INS file for HyperSonic to benefit from all the good sounds beyond general midi. Would it (theoretically) be possible to generate an INS file from a VST host application? I found methods like getProgramListCount() and getProgramName() in the VST3 SDK.

Happy new year to all!

[Dan]

Unfortunately HyperSonic does not expose its sounds to the VST host

Seems we have a developer here

[charlys44]

Yes, I see - its in the wiki:

http://www.varranger.com/wiki/index.php/VSTi

- Some plugins have PROGRAMS. They are predefined factory presets. If some are present, you will see the rack line number lightened (1). Clicking on it will allow you to see and select a program.

I did search for an INS file, but did not find any.   

[Dan]

The best I can find : ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/VSTi_Hypersonic_2/Docs/Hypersonic_Patch_List.PDF

[Lylo]

So if I understand hypersonic is better than Halion Sonic for program change.

[Dan]

I currently don't have Halion Sonic installed on my computers.
Can you try to remove the GM mode of Halion Sonic, and try to change banks and programs in the SOUND EDIT, and see if you can access any Halion Sonic sounds, like with HyperSonic2?

[Lylo]

No, you have just gm mode and multi mode with 128 patchs.
But it's easy to change the factory gm sound by another sound.

[charlys44]

I have looked at the Hypersonic Patch List. However, it seems to different from what I have installed. I think the list leaves out the demo modules. Also, I could not correlate the program numbers and bank names with the docs.

You may alternatively check the bank/patch selector of your host's MIDI track. If it complies fully to the VST 2.0 standard, you can browse and select your Hypersonic 2 patches directly from within the track.

VSTSpy finds out, that Hypersonic supports midiProgramNames. Maybe this is the old 2.0 style of querying the list of patches?

[Dan]

Hey you are right ! I was not aware of this possibility !
I will add the Hypersonic sound list in the INS screen
I am not sure if other VST instruments use this

[charlys44]

> I will add the Hypersonic sound list in the INS screen

Great! Let me know when you have something! 

[Dan]

It seems to work

Do you know another VST that exposes its MIDI sounds this way, so I can test?

[charlys44]

Great work Dan! I can't wait to have this :-)

However, it seems that very few VST plugins support this method. I scanned my VST folder with VSTSpy and even downloaded some other VSTi bundles. But HyperSonic remains the only one which VSTSpy reports as "yes" for midiProgramNames.

I'll keep my eyes open!

Karlheinz

[Dan]

You can try now the INS screen, the new button VST, or clicking on the vst rack number, will show you all the bank and sounds of HyperSonic 2 inside vArranger

Note, I don't have any 64 bit VST to test with this feature

[charlys44]

You can try now the INS screen, the new button VST, or clicking on the vst rack number, will show you all the bank and sounds of HyperSonic 2 inside vArranger

Do I need an update first?  I have v1.17.94.
How do we get updates?

[Dan]

I sent you an email yesterday

[claudiodecubellis]

hello Dan I also have 2 hypersonic can try the new update thanks

[Dan]

ok

[claudiodecubellis]

Dan thanks great job as always !!!!!!

[charlys44]

Hello Dan,

the patch selection for HyperSonic does not work on my system. Sometimes it chooses a different patch in hypersonic, but that patch does not match the patchname in the INS window. Clicking on alternatives switches the displayed page instead of switching the patch. Do you need more information? How can I help?

[Dan]

Are you sure HyperSonic is not set in GM mode, because in GM mode, only GM sounds can be selected

[charlys44]

You are right. I was in GM mode. Removing the plugin and adding it again fixed the problem.
One issue still exists: On the track it does not display the correct patch name. It does display something with VSTi ->, but a different name. 

[Dan]

Yes, this is known. As you can use 3 different midi sound modules on the same track, vArranger does not know what to display.
I will maybe think about a solution later for nicer display

[charlys44]

In this case, I have only activated the checkmark near "SEND TO MIDI OUT 2: VST" and then the only VST selected was "01 HYPERSONIC".

[Dan]

Yes,I know