Help with LED feedback for Novation SL MkII controller

[xuanvuz]

I'm not sure if there are differences between the Novation SL MkII and Korg nanoKONTROL in term of getting LED feedback, but I can't get the SL MkII to work (nanoKONTROL works fine!). Here's my setup for the SL MkII:

Buttons 1 - 8 sends CC #1 - 8
Buttons are setup as Momentary
DisplayType: I've tried all possible combinations, which are: LED, ON/OFF, 0-127, and 64 (can't remember exactly on the 64 piece.)

All the settings are saved in a template for the SL MkII, and I've set the Keyboard communication to Channel 1 U1/M1 (Channel 1, MIDI port 1, USB port 1).
For the Common communication (which is where the buttons and controllers on the SL MkII are send to), I've tried to set them as the same as Keyboard (above), as well as I've tried to set them to a different channel and or different port, i.e.: MIDI Channel 2, MIDI port 1 (or 2), USB port 1 (or 2). None seems to work.

I can control vArranger with those buttons just fine, just that the LED does not lid up I did check the box that says "LED" and selected SL MkII output port for LED. Can anyone help as I really hope to get this working and just use the SL MkII as my controller since they have a tons of knobs and buttons that should cover pretty much everything that I need to control vArranger.

Thanks,
Kenny.

[Dan]

From the Novation SL MKII manual Page 19:

Code Select Expand


SPECIAL tEMPLAtES foR ContRoLLInG ABLEton LIVE AnD REASon
There are 2 special Advanced mode templates (templates 31 and 32).
These are templates for controlling DAW software that cannot be controlled using Automap, however the software
developers have worked with Novation to create a control experience that offers more than a standard template.
Whereas with most of the Advanced mode templates, are set up to just send out control information to control software
or hardware, these special templates include feedback, so if a parameter is changed from the software, then the SL MkII
will update it's LCDs and LED rings.
Additional level of control includes the Row select buttons and P1 and P2 scroll buttons offering more functionality –
whereas these buttons have fixed functionality in all the other standard templates.

So maybe try those 2 presets, or try Automap mode?
And let us know.

[xuanvuz]

Just tried to use templates 31 & 32, couldn't get any of them to work since they requires Reason or Live to be running which I don't use both. The SL MkII displays "Ableton Live Offline" and the same for Reason, I guess they did some kind of detection. I'll try Automap next but that's the last thing I'd like to do, I hate that software from my previous experience. And I'm trying to avoid adding another layer to my setup. But I'll give it a try and will let you know if it work or not.

By the way, I've been researching like crazy on this issues fo the past couple hours and found this document from Novation, maybe that shed some light on how you can make vArranger to work with Novation products I've read through the doc (didn't understand most of it), it seems to geared toward Automap but I guess you can based on that to figure out the Advanced Mode stuffs

[xuanvuz]

3 more hours wasted, couldn't get the darn thing to work Tried with Automap (using user custom template with just some CC to test), and LED feedback once again does not work. Not sure why it's so complicated with this thing? Novation kinda failed twice on me, it was the Ultranova before and this time with the SL MkII.

Anyway, with Automap, I clicked on the "Advanced", select "Automap MIDI" as the I/O, channel 1, which gave me a "Thing" to setup CC. I went into vArranger, select SL MkII as the MIDI Input #1. In MIDI Input #2, selected Automap MIDI. Was able to let vArranger learn the CC and able to change sounds, etc..., but no LED feedback.

Kenny.

[Dan]

The document is not very easy to understand.

I just sent a question to novation :

Is it possible to get the led feedback on advanced mode?

From the document, in automap mode, it seems that for the LED ON message novation is waiting value 1, and I am sending value 127.

Can you send me a picture of your MIDI PORTS, so I can see how your novation is written exactly. Then I will send you a version to try with value = 1

[xuanvuz]

Hi Dan, attached are the screenshots. Not sure if these are what you looking for, let me know if you want more information or something else. The MIDI settings on the SL MkII are pretty much the default values.

[xuanvuz]

Still couldn't get it to work, but here are some information from the user guide, hopefully it sheds some light on the issue:

ADDITIONAL OPTIONS FOR BUTTONS ONLY

DispType (Display Type): Control value displayed as either ON or OFF. The low value setting determines the ON value and the high value setting determines the OFF value. This is best suited to a bi-state parameter where you want to see whether it is in an on or off state e.g. phase reverse on a mixer channel.
LED: This is like ON/OFF except that nothing is displayed when the control is in an OFF state. ON/OFF & LED display types should be used with control type Momentary or Toggle.

For buttons, drum pads and the sustain pedal, the Press Value and Release Value should be set in conjunction with the BtnType (Button Type) setting (see below).
BtnType (Button Type): This setting is only available for buttons, drum pads and the sustain pedal. Where available, it can be found on the second page of control settings so scroll up to access it.

It should be set in conjunction with the Press and Release values for the control to determine how the button works. The options are as follows:
NORMAL: The Press Value is sent when the button is pressed, nothing is sent on release.
MOMENTRY: The Press Value is sent when the button is pressed and the Release Value is sent when the button
is released.

...
...

The 'MOMENTRY' option is not available for the drum pads because they only respond to a hit and do not have a mechanism to detect when you release your finger from them. Instead of 'MOMENTRY' they have a special 'VELOCITY' option. When this is set, the value sent out when you hit the pad will depend on how hard you hit it. The control value is still constrained within the Low Value and High Value settings. As an example if Low Value is 0 and High Value is 127 then a soft hit will give a value near 0, a medium hit will give a value near 64 and a hard hit will give a value near 127. If Low Value is 2 and High Value is 0 then a soft hit will give value 2, a medium hit will give value 1 and a hard hit will give 0.

[xuanvuz]

I'm doing some more experiment it by using MIDI OX to simulate the MIDI out from vArranger. It seems like setting the button as TOGGLE mode instead of MOMENTARY works. But I'm not sure if it's because the nature of the button type. Not sure if since it's toggle, the LED feedback is working by design, and it doesn't have anything to do with the way it receives the value.

How exactly is MOMENTARY work in vArranger? Are you constantly streaming the "ON" value so that the LED stays on?

Thanks.

[xuanvuz]

Sorry for all the messages, I really want to get this thing to work Doing some more research and it seems like to get the LED feedback to work, the button needs to set as "TOGGLE" (maybe NORMAL too), not MOMENTARY. Some of the posts regarding this issue:

http://www.freestylersupport.com/fsforum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2109
http://www.fxpansion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79126

I have MIDI OX and MIDI Translator Pro, is there anyway that I can use those products to manipulate the data coming in/out between vArranger and the SL MkII to be able to work with TOGGLE mode AND having LED feedback?

Kenny.

[Dan]

So, try NORMAL

[Dan]

I just sent you a beta version, who sends value 1 and not 127 for ask a LED ON.

Let me know if this changes anything.

Dan

ps: try to right clik on the Karaoke screen...

[xuanvuz]

Hi Dan, still couldn't get the LED feedback to work. When you made the change to the beta version, was that intended for Automap mode or Advanced mode? I've tried to reset the keyboard just to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong since I've been trying to get this thing to work for the past +10 hours Let me know if there is a specific mode I need to be in, and if you could give me an example of what the min/press and max/release (or maybe min/release | max/press, I forgot the order displayed on the keyboard), I'll give it another try.

Also, how exactly is vArranger communicate with the MIDI controller? I have vArranger as well as MIDI-OX open, but I can't see output from vArranger to the selected port for the LED feedback. Pressing a button on the keyboard shows the INPUT on the MIDI-OX monitoring screen, but then I don't see any OUTPUT from vArranger?

You are AMAZING with the Karaoke encoding option, works perfectly. THANK YOU!

Kenny.

[Dan]

Here is how MIDI Feedback led is working in vArranger.

When you press a button on your novation keyboard, it sends for example a CONTROLLER N°43 on channel 1

Then you assign for example this button in vArranger OPTIONS/CONTROLLERS to the VARIATION A.

Then, if vArranger need to light ON the variation A button, it sends  CONTROLLER N°43 on channel 1 value 127

Then, if vArranger need to light OFF the variation A button, it sends  CONTROLLER N°43 on channel 1 value 0

On your beta version, it sends value 1 instead of 127, if your midi output name includes Sl MKII or Automap words.

[xuanvuz]

If vArranger output the MIDI message back to the controller, somehow it's not showing on MIDI-OX monitor screen. Anyway, still not getting it to work, here is my current setup:

I'm using Advanced Mode (I've tried Automap as well, with similar settings). I've setup couple of buttons that select the SOUNDS, with different values and button display type just to see if they make any difference, but they seems to be the same to me. The number/value in parenthesis are the value that set for a particular setting:

VARRANGER

MIDI IN #1
   MIDIIN2 (SL MkII port 2, *this is Port 2 == U2)

MIDI IN #2, with LED checked
   SL MkII | SL MkII (*this is Port 1 == U1)

CONTROLLERS
   GROUP 1 (PIANO)      MIDI IN PORT (2)   MIDI TYPE (CONTROL CHANGE)   MIDI CHANNEL (16)   CONTROLLER NUMBER (24)
   GROUP 2 (E. PIANO)      MIDI IN PORT (2)   MIDI TYPE (CONTROL CHANGE)   MIDI CHANNEL (16)   CONTROLLER NUMBER (25)
   GROUP 3 (CHROM)      MIDI IN PORT (2)   MIDI TYPE (CONTROL CHANGE)   MIDI CHANNEL (16)   CONTROLLER NUMBER (26)

==========================================================================================

SL MkII

TEMPLATE ROUTING:    KeybChan (1)   KeybPort (1)      ComnChan (16)   ComnPort (U1)

CC#24   ButtonType (Momentary)      Ports (ComnPORT)   MidiChan (ComnCHAN)
      Control (CC)            DispType (0-127)    Press (1)    Release (0)

CC#25   ButtonType (Momentary)      Ports (ComnPORT)   MidiChan (ComnCHAN)
      Control (CC)            DispType (LED)       Press (1)    Release (0)

CC#26   ButtonType (Momentary)      Ports (ComnPORT)   MidiChan (ComnCHAN)
      Control (CC)            LED             Press (127)    Release (0)


Thanks for looking, Dan!

[Dan]

Don't use vArranger, and try sending a midi message to the Novation, and try to light a button with a midi message.

For example send midi channel 16, ctrl 24 value 1 with a midi sender app. (midiox?)

When you are able to light a button, let me know.

You can ask to the Novation support / forum.

Is there any application who can lights the Novation buttons? If yes, use midi ox to look at whitch messages are used

[xuanvuz]

I think it's working now! Can't believe somehow I missed that. When setting up value for the buttons, there are actually 4 different options to chose from instead of 2:

Min | Off - On | Max

I had always thought that they are the same, and they usually updates themselves to be the same value so I didn't paid much attention. But in order for it to work in vArranger & SL MkII context, the ON value must be "1". As soon as I set that to 1 (see picture), the beta version that you sent me work perfectly!

Been almost 20 hours to try to get this to work but when it work, I think it really worth it! The controller have A LOT of buttons, and I can easily navigates between template, controlling vArranger with this is ease! Now I need to try this WITHOUT Automap, that thing sucks the heck out my system's resource! Constantly running at 30% when I don't even have my controller on!

Thanks again for your help, Dan! You are superb!
Kenny.

[Dan]

Yes we don't need Automap.  I hope you can do it.
If it's working good with buttons, maybe I will add later support for the ledrings of volumes knobs.

[xuanvuz]

Please do, those LED on the encoders are pretty cool! The SL MkII Programmers Reference that I attached have information about them Whenever you have time of course, as I know there are far more important features to be implemented.

Kenny.

[Dan]

Yes, it should be cool with bi directionnal communication.
I first planned to send the values of the volumes..
But I saw in your Novation document, that it does not accepts a volume value, but another smaller value depending on how we want the led ring to be displayed (pan, value...)
It is very specific, and I don't own a SLMKII at home. I am afraid it will be a little hard to write code without the machine.
Recently I have bought too much musical gears, to add this interesting kb too
I will try to find someone in France who let me try the SLMKII, for some days.

Try to see if led feedback can be done for advanced mode and not Automap.

[Dan]

Maybe understand if Ableton or Reason is sending a midi message to the Novation..

[Dan]

Maybe you can use the automap universal template in the SLMKII, but don't use the automap software.

[xuanvuz]

Couldn't get it to work yet, when not using Automap software, I only have the MIN & MAX, no ON/OFF. Also it seems like the computer can't communicate back to the controller, and in the process of doing a bunch of things last night, I managed to uninstall (or installed) something that my computer wouldn't boot now I need to do a full restore!

I'll let you know once I got my computer back on. Hopefully all the hardware and machine ID stays the same so that I don't have to request for new code on some of the soft synths (including vArranger).

[xuanvuz]

Dan, I think I give up!!! Spent the entire last night to do a full restore of my computer, which I didn't backup. Luckily vArranger ran without reauthorizing (I guess the machine/hardware ID remains the same even when I completely wipeout the HDD.) Anyway, back to Novation SL MkII and LED Feedback stuffs.

I couldn't get it to work WITHOUT Automap mode! It just doesn't work, no matter what I've tried. Somehow it doesn't seems to communicate back to the controller.

I found out that I can use the Ableton Live template (Advanced Mode, #32), and LED Feedback works! However, the LCD screen doesn't display anything but "Ableton is Offline" message! That means that this template is a special template, and I was able to verify that by open it using the Editor, on Mac, it displays a message saying that this template is a "Automap" template, so it probably have some special settings in it. (When I open on the PC editor, it doesn't say anything though!)

But since I was able to open it, I've created a new template and copied the exact button settings on the Ableton template! Of course I couldn't get it to work The template is a sysex file with a bunch of hex that I have no clue what is going on behind the scene, so I don't know what are the differences between a regular template and this template. But obviously, Ableton was able to do it.

I've attached my template as well as the Ableton template here, hopefully if someone know how to view/modify sysex, they could help me with this issue! I'm starting to give up since I've spent over 20 hours on this issue already. I can't use Automap, it's running at 50% CPU on my machine, ALONE! I also have links and resources for your reference.

SL MkII Editor - http://beta.novationmusic.com/releases/sl_mkii/

Ableton setup - http://www.novationmusic.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=560
(I followed this routing and got the LED feedback to work, but LCD screen displays the message as mentioned above)

Some info on Ableton forum - https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187834

Thanks!
Kenny.

[xuanvuz]

I have to take my words back Figured out the issue of Automap constantly running at 50% CPU, which is the reason for all these mess and hours wasted! It was because I disabled 2 virtual MIDI ports that was created by Automap! When installing Automap, 3 virtual ports are installed: Automap MIDI, Propellerhead Reason, and Propellerhead Reason Mixer.

Somehow instead of getting MIDI output to Automap MIDI port when running Automap, the output was Propellerhead Reason Mixer. So I went into Device Manager and disabled those 2 ports, Automap then output to the "correct" port (according to all the manuals, posts, etc...). And that was the reason for Automap MIDI to run like crazy!!! After I formatted my HDD (see above), and all attempts failed, I decided to give Automap another try. This time I forgot to disable the ports, and Automap quietly ran in the background just like any other apps!

After about 30 minutes of reconfig the buttons/knobs/sliders using Automap, I'm now controlling vArranger with LED feedback, and it looks great! The LCD screen shows the patch, left/right voice, song name, etc... you name it! Whatever you can program, it'll display on the LCD screen.

So the moral of this story: DON'T DISABLE THE VIRTUAL MIDI PORTS Unless you want to spend 20+ hours, format your HDD, reinstall all your stuffs, only to find out it was your fault.

Kenny.

[Dan]

From the novation documentation, they are saying that sending to the Automap MIDI port or the other SLMKII port, it should work.
Maybe a way to not have to use their software.

Also, I don't undestand how you can use the lcd screen.

we need pictures or video

[AmosHenderson]

I'm not sure if there are differences between the Novation SL MkII and Korg nanoKONTROL in term of getting LED feedback, but I can't get the SL MkII to work (nanoKONTROL works fine!). Here's my setup for the SL MkII:

Buttons 1 - 8 sends CC #1 - 8
Buttons are setup as Momentary
DisplayType: I've tried all possible combinations, which are: led light, ON/OFF, 0-127, and 64 (can't remember exactly on the 64 piece.)

All the settings are saved in a template for the SL MkII, and I've set the Keyboard communication to Channel 1 U1/M1 (Channel 1, MIDI port 1, USB port 1).
For the Common communication (which is where the buttons and controllers on the SL MkII are send to), I've tried to set them as the same as Keyboard (above), as well as I've tried to set them to a different channel and or different port, i.e.: MIDI Channel 2, MIDI port 1 (or 2), USB port 1 (or 2). None seems to work.

I can control vArranger with those buttons just fine, just that the LED does not lid up I did check the box that says "LED" and selected SL MkII output port for LED. Can anyone help as I really hope to get this working and just use the SL MkII as my controller since they have a tons of knobs and buttons that should cover pretty much everything that I need to control vArranger.

Thanks,
Kenny.

Hello friend were you able to sort out the LED problem.. I am facing similar issue with my leds as they dont lid up.. Please help