vArranger Forums

Borys, dobry dzień.

vArranger is a musical arranger software that can process many third party style types. There are many free / not free styles of all genres available on internet some sound great, some not so good. Genres selection should not be a problem.

 v.muller,
Yes, I know that Varranger will play most Yamaha, Roland, Ketron etc....
It is just some style collections / sets seemed to be tuned much better with vArranger than most...

Long story:
Since it is not possible for Varranger to "remix" styles. Replace parts of one style with parts of another style, I identified 2 ways how to make styles sound more dynamic, fuller and interesting: 1) Revoice and layer existing tracks with VSTs etc.  2)Mute unwanted tracks and replace them with something else in separate DAW software.
The second part is a bit tricky given dynamics of core style, latency and all other fun things related to composition.

The short story would be good to identify certain style sets that will be well balanced and mapped nicely without major surgical procedures.

Lylo, can you please be more specific. I tried some Ketron sets... Two of the better ones was of Midjay and X1, that played well, but other than that... Seems most of available "sets" are not consistent, have a lot of randomly converted things...
Can you suggest a consistent set or collection similar to the two mentioned above that would sound good overall?
Thank you!

Hi fellows.
Want to ask a question and share experience. There are great thousands of styles available. Some are very nice, some just rubbish. But what is interesting is that usually sets come from a collections and most often, converted collection. From my experience, there are several sets that sound good with only minor tweaking, right away.
Styles for Yamaha s970, styles for Roland BK7/9 module and styles for Tyros... are among the best and also, surprisingly Agaton's style set is also well tuned for VA.
There are a few others, but in my opinion they would require much more tweaking to sound usable. 
I would love to hear how Genos styles would sound on VA, but they are not tuned well as of now.
Can somebody share their findings?
Thanks.

Lylo,
This is wrong direction for this conversation.  I am trying to advocate to make program better for many (at least some of us). You are advocating for Dan.
When you have a toothache every time you eat you go to a doctor to fix it, not hoping that if you stop eating candy it will go away, advocating that body heals itself.

Take a breath my friend, I am not your enemy.

P.S.S. Lylo, I also love VA for many reasons. And I do appreciate and credit Dan as pioneer in creating universal  program that can do a lot of interesting things.
BUT it is like a delicious pie that is not well baked at edges. 

If there was a guarantee that the feature would arrive in a few month, I would shut up and patiently wait, but as you mentioned YeArS....
It just hurts me that program with such great potential,  stands still.

Lylo,
It is just funny. Maybe you do not understand something....
Dan was right when he mentioned that full registration save/load would take long time. Dan can NOT tweak VA or fix that. Because it is simply how computer processes data. You need much (MUCH!!) faster PC to do that (full VST loads on the fly)
What I am asking is a manual batch load / save (that has a RELATION to the style or song) that is probably not very useful for life performance, again unless you have a VERY fast machine.

Actually, I met a good friend programmer (yesterday) He is talented and manages software far more complicated than VA. Out of curiosity I mentioned the problem I am having in VA and explained a bit how it works. He has the same opinion as I, that what I am asking should not be a complicated task.

P.S. I worked with 3 individual developers/coders when I designed my site, which involves a complex database and mathematical features that had to be custom coded. I have a pretty good understanding that save option that I proposed for VA would take 1-3 hours to make, given that all the functions ALREADY exist. And they are!

No modern program that I know of would NOT allow you to save/open complete project in one step. Think about this for a moment.

Barry, I do not have headache currently. With my posts I just want to show that I spend more time in "reminding" than it takes to put something in place that was supposed to be there from the start. I do remember the times me of Windows 3.x on older machines. Every time you had to manually do a selective boot set of drivers etc. I do not want to go back to that 20+ year old way of computer philosophy. I want to be able to save my projects and open them normal way. Is this too much of asking of 2018 software? I want to do more music and not worry about lost settings. Seems like Dan is actively helping people with specific glitches bugs of their IniViDuAL hardware that will be outdated in couple of years,  rather then invest this time to do something that would benefit most. Bullying=NO   Observing=YES
I admit I am not politically correct, but feel sorry if you do not get my humor.

Shepherded got drunk and snores like sailor
sheep running wild, grew set of shArp teeth...
They need fresh meadows and shelter from freezing 
before they can give fluffy wool, milk or meat.

Dan, any news save feature?

Lenovo thinkpad Yoga 12.5  i7.  It converts to tablet, loads sounds fast. Strong enough to pull modern DAW. Extra slot for SSD hard drive. True anti glare screen.  Inexpencive parts. Used price range $350-$600 depending on configuration.

Please do not hijack this important thread. Gigperformer does not save relationship to VA songs/styles. 
This topic is:
  Save ALL option for all song related features.
Hoping Dan will implement this relation of VST and styles with manual load mode or similar soon.

Lylo.... this "future" will be in 5-7 years for average VA user.
Associations of VST states to corresponding "song saves" can work for these long years until average VA user gets a computer fast enough to switch 10gb files on the fly.
What I am asking for is not a difficult task. Any hobbyist programmer will prove me right.
What you hope for, yes, it is more complex...but the main issue with what you and some other folks want would require much faster machines. Right Dan?

Lylo, I find it amusing that you do not realize as well that it is beyond Dan's power to make full VST blocks to load on fly. No mater what "optimizations" he makes. You can be as patient as a turtle, this will not help.
Maybe when we have i12 computers with 60gb of RAM..... maybe. But if my memory is not collapsing, I believe that you have older machine and I believe you said that you intended to use it for a much longer time.

I would estimate that  we would have such computers in about 3-5 years, if things go right way. With trade fights between USA @ China, it might take longer. And once we do, I seriously doubt that lucky VA owners will run and buy one right away

All I am asking for is association of VST states + songs. And Lylo, if you read my post, I clearly said that I do not believe it will be suitable for live playing.
That should not be hard to implement.

Sorry Dan, I had some strong coffee today and just had to write this:


Some folks are polite and supportive   
some folks like the cheese on their bread
some folks despise dopey monkey labor,
such as counting the sheep before bed.

For instance we take V.Arranger
It has all the whistles and chimes
But sometimes it makes me suspicious and sullen
My anger as bitter as limes.

It's morning or night on the outside...
I am starring at laptop display
Oh Danny boy, those pipes loudly calling!!
To make V.Arranger improvements today.

Dan,
interesting points, but you probably know regardless of VA optimization, there is just no chance that full scale VST states will load on the fly one after another.
Computers are not there just yet. And when they are, in a few years, still most of VA users will have an i7 / 16gb memory hardware on average. That will not be enough regardless of optimizations.... To load 4-8gb(or more) of software and sounds instantly

What I am asking for, is most likely not for live performances.
What you have now: All VST states can be loaded on start or individually after program has started. I am not asking to undo or diminish that. What I am asking for is to create a relations between song(or style) and VST states.  It will take 10-20 to load no matter how the program is optimized. I know that.

The easy and common sense solution would be to to have check mark on "save song" menu for complete VST states snapshot. + Small button somewhere "load all states for THIS song" after you reopen the song. On default it will use whatever you have saved as a startup configuration. Once you press the button it will load states associated (saved) specifically for that song. This will not overwrite "load on startup" states. 

I do not believe this should break anything. This is what I am doing now, just very "manually"

Lylo. I helped to develop a complex site with thousands of items with dozen corresponding values going in and out. For years, I never had an issue with it. I am not a programmer, but I have a  pretty solid idea of what is involved in doing what I am asking for. It is not complex or takes long.  It should have been done from the start. Stability is NON issue in this case.

NO DAW that I know of does not save VST presets to project. Yes, I know you are going to say VA is not a DAW. Ok, another example for you. There is no Document program that would not save document without image if you insert one. My list can go for a long time.

Lylo, please do not defend Dan. If he charged $80-$100 for his software (like Band in a box for example), we could have talked how well he is performing, but asking as much as he does, things have to improve. Especially core things. I hope Dan is reading this and will follow on the promise.

BjayG.

I believe I am being very clear about the save feature.
When I create a song template, I use a combination of SF2 bank + 2/3 VST plugins such as Kontakt, Sampletank etc for voices.
I always change things around, instruments / effects etc in SF2 and VST. There no IDENTICAL VST settings for the projects I am doing.
VA saves SF2 related voices / volumes in "save song" AND opens them correctly, but NOT VSTs states, which account for at least half of the voices in my projects.
Each VST state has to be  SAVED and later LOCATED and OPENED separately for the project.

As of right now, I got about 60 completed Song projects and about 30 I am working on in VA. List GROWS. Now multiply 90x3 and you get a list of 90 songs PLUS 270 save states(!!!) that have NO direct RELATION to the song projects. Honestly, I do not know how to explain this better...

I think what is happening here is that there are two kinds of people who do not reply to this thread.
1) People who do not visit this forum (majority)
2)People who only use a couple of VST states for most of their projects.

In any case, I believe I am asking for a basic core feature that is important and in my case #1 enemy with VA.
P.S. #2 enemy is Octave changes on specific bars

What I am asking for is a way to save VST states (hopefully VST effects too) in ReLaTiOn to a style/song. All the features already in VA. It should not be hard.

I can see how Gig performer can be useful, but I do not believe it will resolve the main issue.  Main issue I am having is "relation" of a song/style in VA to VST states.
This program will batch save / batch open VSTs but without relation to VA styles it will require to open this host and locate saved snapshot.  If for example you have 100 songs and 80 VST saves in gig performer, you still have to locate your song and then locate corresponding VST batch save file.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Barry, I believe our needs are a bit different. Project save and registration are different. What I am asking for, is basically relations of the settings(states) to particular song(project). Not really sure how people are getting by.
I have over 80 projects times 2 or 3 VSTs for each song with different settings. It is HELL locating and loading individual save states to particular song. They had to be linked or a possibility to link them when VST option in VA was created. Not exactly sure why it is taking so long to make this happen.

something like this happened....

That might be the case.

But also "J" Because it seems I am asking a direct question and get very blurry robo answers.

Lylo, this is not "my" idea, this is common sense.
There could be many reasons why Dan does not implement this... He does not say why and I honestly do not know but here are a few reasons:

A)He does not have time to work on VA
B)Aliens preventing him from doing it
C)The pool of his customers is nearly complete, no financial point of investing into it.
D)He developed allergy to programming
E)He, himself does not need this feature
F)Not enough people are on this forum to "vote" for ideas.
G)He has something else in mind, but does not know how to approach it.
H)He likes people getting emotional and frustrated.
I)He wants surprise everybody soon by making some fantastic changes to VA.
J)Dan left to live in remote island and his answers are AI generated.
K)Russian KGB agents are not letting him improve program.
L)He is starving because people are not buying VA as they used to and just does not have stamina to do programming.

Lylo, here are a few alternative reasons. I probably missed some.... You are welcome to continue the list

Lylo, what I am asking for is not hard to implement.
Batch VST/Effect tied to song name. And a small button "load complete state for THIS song"
I am not asking to remake how it is already working, just add the function of Batch saving / loading settings for the song.
Another words,  program derives the name of the file for example "SillyPop.sty" and when settings are saved creates a file "SillyPop.STATES" or similar.
So when you open your song "SillyPop" it has a RELATION to specific settings/states that can be loaded or NOT in one click.

Everything what I am asking for is there already, just need to be put in one basket.

Dan, Thank you for answering, but I have requested this feature long ago in different post too.
If you remember, about 5 month or so I showed you the problem with list of VST saves ans scrolling through them....  In combination, I have over 150 VST save states and hopefully, if I live long, much more to come  
I do not believe I am asking much, especially something not terribly complicated (tricky, but not complex) that would benefit many users.

If you can give me approximate, but believable time frame when this "save project / save all" feature will be done, I promise to shut up

P.S. I feel as my tools for music making are yin yang. BIAB has waaay too many menus/options.....VA does not have some basic core functions (normal way to save projects)
Let me know.

Thank you.

Hi Dan. I am having tremendous difficulty understanding why this is ignored...
I spent more time writing about this than it would take to program the "save" feature.
What is the point of making customers sad? Does not bring good Karma. I offered to pay to make this feature available and be a guinea pig beta tester... what else do you need?

P.S. Since it seems that OcTaVe changes as requested by many will not happen any time in foreseeable future. At least make this save option happen. All functions are there. Should be no more than 1-2 hours of coding.

Regardless how you call it. "Save ALL"  should be a part of song, not crawling many poor designed menus to OPEN / SAVE project. It could be as something else too, but the core of save functions should be in place. You SHOULD be able to save settings to a song. So when you open it, it sounds exactly as the way you left it.
I am not very sure WHY DAN IS NOT ANSWERING THIS.... Dan, PLEASE "SAVE ALL" option, This should not be hard programming. It should have been available loooooong time ago.  Kindly add "save all" function as you promised. I have dozens of projects, now multiply that by all "VST states" It is getting very ridiculous.
You focused to make your program simple and clean. Do not betray your own philosophy.
Thank you.

Dan?

I can understand how this is useful with only keyboard + module setup.
But having VA on laptop or tablet with you creates a totally new perspective as you can use software for sound generation, which would be more flexible, expandable and less pricey option.

Feel a bit like talking to emptiness....
Seems as people here enjoy saving their projects in many steps and opening them in the same manner...
...some people just loved their abacus and could not let it go when electronic calculators arrived... nostalgic tactile reflexes I guess.

Dan please, "save/open" songs (projects) in one step. All the functions are there, this should not take long to program batch save.
Kindly, be a man of your word.
Thank you.

Hi Dan.
Any news on the save VST / effects states with song? I desperately need this feature as right now it is very awkward  There should be a way to save/open complete project in one  step. You mentioned new release of VA. Will save ALL option will be there?

Please let us know.
Thank you.

Dan, it is good that you answered, but my problem with "save all" is getting very frustrating.  I have about 30 completed songs and about 30 I am working on. They all have some sort of variation in VST and effects. There is just TOO MANY variations of save states to remember and too many steps to go through to open the project and have it all open the way it was saved. Please, if you do not have time to do it free, I do NOT blame you, that is why I am asking if you can do this feature for me and perhaps others as a paid option.
If you do not want to write on forum, you are welcome to send me email. I honestly need this feature.


There are plenty of features that would make Varranger better, but "All Save" snapshot/load and registration are two of the most important things.
As of now there is no single way to open a song with all saved parameters. There many menus that have to be adjusted to open it the way it is supposed to open.

As of now, average song takes 6 steps to open. And that is ONLY if you remember exactly which "save state" belongs to which "song"
1) open song
2)load VST1 state
3)load VST2 state
4)load VST3 state
5)load VST effect state
6)load VST 2 effect state.

Kindly let me and people who are interested know if the save function is possible to do in timely manner.

Thank you.

BUMP?

Hi Dan.
I have been working with customers from all walks of life since the early 1990s.
There are many things I learned. But the two most important things were:
1) respect a customer.
2) deliver what was promised.

Of course, you are a private entity and within your rights to do anything you want....
But it seems, not only to me,  that you are simply avoiding an outcry from your customers.

"Save all" and "Performance functions" described in this thread are
very important and should be the basic core functions for this type of product.
If you are unwilling to do it for free, what would be the cost and time frame to do that?  I am sure that people who want these features will consider to chip in to make this happen.

Please answer.
Thank you.

Dan, can you please address this.
This topic is much more important to many users than nuances that only affecting one or two people.
If there is a price for this feature, you are welcome to write a PM and maybe we can discuss this with people who are interested to make this happen.
Thank you.

Dan can you please tell me and people who are interested in this, if you can do this very important feature that is absent?

Save a complete VA snapshot to a style or to "empty" style to be able to recall whole snapshot without crawling 10,000 places and thinking "Oh,did I save this VST...or how about this VST...or  effects VST" or second VST effect state etc..... same with loading

Dan, kindly do not ignore this. If you can not do as a part of free update, how much would you want to implement this feature in timely manner?
Please advise.

Hi Dan. Do you think it is realistic to combine save features as I described here and implement this in the next update?
Thank you in advance for your answer.

Lylo, Kontakt crashed because I tried to load over 5gb of instruments in Kontakt + Drummica   I deleted the bank from being a default multi and everything works again.
I am sure that if I mage bank with 1-2gb with only essential instruments, it will work fine. But then again back to the topic
If saving option as described would be there, I do not need any "specific" banks except for soundfont bank to just audition the style and maybe use a couple of sounds from it.

Save/Performance save option, if it is going to be done, should have VST Effects save feature also. For example, I use effects called Isotope Nectar.   Which is multi effect and has EQ, compressor, reverb and many others. Would be very convenient to have its settings state saved to song/performance.

Dan PLEASE make this save feature! It is very useful. With one click, you can be right where you left off no matter of complexity of sound settings.

Lylo, thank you. You always try to help. Earning good karma
I assembled the bank as you described, but it came out huge, over 5gb and crashed Kontakt

But then, I realized that it is dejavu again. There will never be a perfect bank, at least for me. There are balanced banks to try styles, but to get them shiny, always need to adjust something and replace instruments with VST and such. Most of the songs I work on do not have same presets. So my workflow was optimal from the start.
1) Hear style with balanced SF2 bank, "on the fly"
2) Tweak / replace sound/  add VST / effects.
3) save*

So that brings me to the question raised by a felow user BjayG today and myself couple of times. His question was about performance saves and I believe it can be done in one shot together with my request of VST / parameters state saves to the songs.  I believe it can be done as one. I described logic in that post. If Dan implements this as he said, it would be great, because it is better than having just multi bank or such. It can save whole custom scenario, a complete snapshot of vArranger at the moment in time and then recall it either by choosing a song or creating performance state, which will have nearly identical process.

Dan, please make this feature. It will benefit many of your customers, not just few, including me  who hang out on a forum here

BjayG,  Dan.

This is very similar to what we talked about, couple of weeks ago. "Save All functions."
BjayG, I was asking Dan for a very similar function.  Option of saving  parameters, including VST states directly to the song.  In scenario I proposed, you do not have to think or remember which song has particular performance settings as it will be loaded together with song.

Dan, here is another piece of logic. If you make the feature that I requested, it can serve two functions. For people who want PERFORMANCE saves buttons and for people who want VST states. Here is scenario:  In song (Style) folder, you can save song with "save all" (performance / vst) function and when you open a style that does not have VST states and other parameters saved with it, it will use the LAST opened parameters.

So in situation of BjayG, it would work like this.
1. He makes a Folder named PERFORMANCES in style folder.
2. Chooses performace settings he desires and saves emty style with "Save All" functions. And names it "Performance 1" etc. ( or any different name)
3. Next time he opens "Performance 1" song, it acts a a button and loads the performance state.
4. Any other style/song that does NOT have "save all parameters" option saved to it will follow the LAST  opened file with "save all parameters".... Until you open next song (can be empty song) which will have different "save all" set.

I hope that makes sence.
In this scenario, it simplifies things as it will both, satisfy people who want "performance saves" and people who want "save all" option, which is essentially same thing. But what I described will save screen space and maintain same workflow. See attached photo.

Hi Dan. I believe preset bank are user created, not downloaded...  I tried making a bank in Kontakt once but after couple of hours got lost in the settings and just gave up.
Would be nice if there is a template that would work with vArranger.

Lylo, interesting post, but does look complicated.   I guess there is no magic bullet, but maybe it is good thing. I find that most interesting things happen when you experiment.
Those Sennheiser drums were a treasure find for me Simple to use, yet very life like.  Before I posted I tried search word drummica, but it did not find on the forum. Should learn French

vladaelo, If I understand correctly, you made a custom bank for this library with all the patches that follow GM/XG rules. Correct? Do you think you can share that preset bank (not the library Would be very interesting to try.

vladaelo, we are talking about 2 different animals here
You just have to set the Sennheiser drums to channel 10  in Kontakt and they will play the style drums but it also has many tweaks for drums which are very nice.
...

Welches Programm beziehst du? Cakewalk oder Sennheiser drum?

 vladaelo, I use GM for the most part. Actually in the drums I mentioned here, there are several other mappings too.
I do not discriminate on the mapping. Meaning if I try a mapping which style was "not meant for" but I like how it sounds better than preset, I would keep the one that I like.
Sometimes I would mix the drums from SF2 banks + VST for strange dynamics

While I am on this topic, Cakewalk as some might already know it, closed its doors... However it is very powerful and was only recently updated. You can get Cakewalk home, officially for free without any limitations. When you register it, you will have option to get free Studio Drums VST and Studio Strings instruments. Which are useful and clean. For the price tag (FREE) I think it is a good deal.
Drums mapped right for vArranger!

In any case, I just looked and it is still available.
Follow the link. P.S. You have to register on cakewalk.com first for free account.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sonar-Home-studio-Giveaway-m3718858.aspx

Have fun!

Hi folks,
A nice person recommended these drums. They are for Kontakt 5 (Full and free player)
They are high end Sennheiser / Neumann Drum instrument called Drummica. Not a patch. Full scale instrument with many parameters / effects / presets available for every drum.
To my ear these drums are great and are mapped correctly to play most styles in vArranger. The best part it is FREE!!!

http://sennheiser.us/drummica.html

Site is in German, which should not be a problem to some users here, otherwise google translator is your friend. You have to register to receive NI activation code.
Download is big, 4.7GB and download already comes with Kontakt 5 free player in one package.

Their download server is slow, so be patient. Worth the wait

Let me know you thoughts.

I believe the situation you are describing is easy to overcome.
You just save a duplicate but with "VST state save" checked or unchecked.
And save LIVE songs to one folder and Non-Live to another.
When you click "Save Song" Dialog opens every time with arrangement title editable, So when you add a letter or a number to it, you will not make a mistake in the main name.
That way you will know that LIVE folder does not have VST state saves and will follow general rule of "Load on startup of VA"


P.S. And about your comment " turned to future"... The future is super fast computers and loading VST states on the fly would not be an issue

But as of now, it will be a very nice, time saving  feature to have.

Lylo, I think you are missing bigger picture here.

What I propose is the OPTION to save VST state/settings with arrangements. NOT by default. You do not want=you do not save and use old method of "startup load state" or "load state when VA is open"

Daw has nothing to do with it.  There are many uses for Varranger and this feature will save a lot of headache for different songs, experiments, tryouts, backing tracks, unfinished work etc in VA as VST states will be saved to that particular arrangement.

olivier71500..... I believe in Kontakt you can create a GM compatible bank with program changes.  I talked to one engineer in Native Instruments and he explained that Kontakt is using complex memory algorithms so even with full bank it should not overwhelm modern computer. Unless you are using huge sounds

In any case, I truly hope Dan implements  the option of saving VST states.

Dan! Great news!!!!!!!!!
This is one of my major nemessis issues with VA.

If you make it, I will contribute a little. Also, if you need me to beta test this feature when you make it, I will gladly do it.

Save all VST settings within a saved song....
I thought somebody would reply to this.

Ok, maybe I am not doing something "in flow"... maybe somebody can enlighten me with a better way?

Scenario example:
40+ different tracks saved in Varranger with all kinds of  variations in instruments / channels in VST .
Two different VST programs are used.

As it stands now I open the song and then have to locate and load the two particular VST states that were saved in VA for this specific track out of MANY saved states. Only then it sounds as I intended.

I proposed that Dan makes option to save  "VST states" together with the song. So if you saved those states, VA will recall these states when song is opened.

Can somebody please comment on this?  Hopefully Dan can comment on this as I have asked similar question several times and it was never answered.

Thank you.

Nice Integra demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pauL1wrqnk0

Before I switched to full software bank for Varranger I was considering some hardware options. After reviewing / listening to many demos and tracks, I was inclined towards Roland Integra-7 SuperNATURAL Sound Module, which is GM2 compatible. To my taste it has far superior sound than any other hardware modules of this class ($600-$1300). You can get a used one for around $850. Should do magic with vArranger and more
Thought it might be interesting for somebody.

I believe, Rumen Matev clearly said that it is "work in progress" project. I am sure it has issues.

Thank you for share. Interesting, better than SD2 bank that I have, but less interesting than TA Bank.   TA bank has deeper sound and only 4gb. This SD1000 bank definitely  interesting for someone who does not have a good bank for that price point, but TA is not crazy priced too

I change my verdict:)

I think one of the best mobile solutions for VA is Lenovo thinkpad Yoga 12 (S1).
My friend had it, I tried it with Varranger and decided to switch from Surface tablet.
You can get a used Yoga i5 / 8gb for about $325 or i7 for $390

Positive points over many Win tablets:

1)almost full featured laptop (keyboard /trackpad)
2)Converts into nice 12.5 screen tablet
3)Anti glare touch screen!!! (I hate extra glossy screens)
4) 2 full size USB ports.
5) Keyboard can be used as a stand (designed such way)
6) Included stylus.
7)Serviceable. you can NOT change Ram, but you can replace Screen, battery, hard drive, wireless card. Thinkpads are popular, so the parts are abundant.

I am very happy that I switched. In attachment couple of photos.

It should be possible without any issues as it can be done in batch automation, not touching (altering) the functions that are available now.
What surprises me is that Dan, who is reading this forum can not reply to this...

Optional "save VST" states on "save song" menu.

If you save VST states (with SONG SAVE) = song loads VST states when opening that particular song (so you do not search separate states and load them separately for that particular project)

If you do not save = They do not load

AuToMaTiOn

P.S. Functions for the VSTs that are there now, do not have to be changed at all, except for scaling which Dan started to work on, but did not complete...

Would appreciate if Dan can reply, if VST states "save" functions could be added to song save, for batch loading on song open.

Thank you lakere, I thought I was talking to myself   

Lylo,
I do not believe average user of VA uses more than 2-3 VST at a time...
Dans VST save/load work ok on states such as Kontakt or Sampletank, I am just proposing having an "optional" checkmark on "save song" to batch process VST when opening song...
If you do not save it with song / it would not load...
I believe it is logical and should not be hard to do as most scripts are already written. See attached.

What I am asking for should not be difficult at all, because scripts for these functions are there already in VA (save VST state), just cross link to the state saves/loads when saving a song among other parameters that are already there. I am surprised that no one  talked about this.

Hi Lylo!
I assume  you are replying to my question... Yes, I understand that I can create a bank, BUT there is always tweaking involved almost with any style. It would be very convenient to save/open "Song" (style) with VST states for that particular project instead of saving individual presets and then opening them individually.... Am I wrong on this?

lakere, thank you for the share! Nice find. Bought it. For $30 it is a interesting set. Some very usable instruments. It works well for individual instruments and layers. In my opinion, on average sound quality is better than 30gb library that came with Kontakt 5(full). There is a very respectable audio tech person on KVR: evildragon, who also spoke well about this library.

It relates to VST sounds, so I will post this here too.  It is quite complex to make a single bank for playback of all styles in VST libraries such as Neo or similar and still there is is always tweaking involved.
I asked in another thread (and Dan personally), that by my great surprise was not replied to by members of this forum.... The idea was that... to be able to save VST states with songs and NOT load each VST save state separately. Since all the features are available already, it should not be difficult at all to make this.

Open song-all VST(s) states are loaded for that specific song. Instead of opening settings in 2-3 or more places....  Any thoughts?

It would be very nice to have an option to save ALL the settings related to song in one place.
Meaning, VST states and all other parameters.

Right now...you have to save states for each VST used and song separately. When opening a song, you have to locate VST "save states" of each individual VST and load them manually.
It is a bit confusing, since you have to REMEMBER which VST was used for particular project.

With "SAVE ALL" function (including VST states) in single place would help a lot.
Open song - all VST settings loaded with it.

P.S. I proposed several times in this forum to ask Dan to adapt crowd-sourcing model for CERTAIN custom features that people might want. For example, for this feature (to save all) I would gladly pay for, as it will save a lot of my time.

Any thoughts of asking Dan to do crowd-sourcing custom features on demand???

Dan, thank you... but it did not work (scroll) I sent you a personal email with short video (7mb) to show exactly what I mean. 

Of course better invest in Surface....or Yoga (convertible) i5/ i7 Many used at great prices out there.

But on cheap side, Dell Venue.... Because if I understand, you want as surface controller.... Dell (in cheaper tablet selection) would have better glass for "touch" than many others.
The link I provided, should work with dell tablets. I am not sure of "average" reviews. My Dell tablet survived many trips, stayed in hot and freezing car etc. Still works fine.

Dan got me hooked on Varranger and I tried bunch of things. I ended up with refurbished Surface PRO 3 / i7.  Never looked back. It is super fast, colors are bright, touch is responsive. Portable.  I take it on trips occasionally. Only downside for me is a single USB port, but there is always a small hub in drawer. 

Dan, if the "scroll" is not easy fix is there a workaround to save more presets for my backing tracks then window fits?
Right now, it only allows to save 18 preset/startup configurations, all other go to the bottom, where you can not see them... So I always overwrite some things to save new presets...
Please let me know if there is a reasonable workaround for this.
Thank you.

Something like this solves that problem (of same port charging/USB) easily. There are many different ones out there:

https://www.ebay.com/i/231303064016?chn=ps

I would suggest spending a little bit more and getting a used Surface PRO (2 or 3 model) with i5/i7
Then you can use it for much (MUCH) more than just a controller.

On the cheaper side I would go with Dell Venue 8 Pro 5000 (it is windows 8, but should upgrade to 10 without a problem.... my did) You need OTG cable, which is $5 for USB licenser to work with Venue pro... but computer is only about $80, I tested Varranger on it, it works fine.

Dan, what about making a scroll bar? I save VST presets for every track... in current scenario it is only possible to save as much as that small window fits... the other "saves" disappear  under, without being visible...

Dan, do you think you can answer this for me....please.
Is this something within my system or it is a bug?
Thank you.

Hi Dan.
Since we are on the topic... Please see attached image. In the "Save VST" window, I can not scroll down. There is more "saved" items than window fits and there is no scroll bar...
Is that something on my machine or it is a bug?
P.S. I tried using keyboard and mouse. With keyboard, it goes down "blindly" meaning, list does not go up, so you can not see what is saved after the border of the window.

Please let me know.

Thank you,
M.

Another suggestion....
Maybe it (octave changer) should be a cornerstone for style maker?
Maybe a separate "paid for" plugin (stylemaker) that can work by itself or integrated into VA.

Wish list
This came up a few times...

Another feature that would be useful is shortening or extending measure. For example when style is playing and you press "break" manually it starts on the next tact., but in "song chord" it has to run through whole bar and changes only on the next.

I guess Dan, for a lone wolf doing good job in maintaining VA, but for some serious improvements there is time involved that most of us do not have.

I wish future of VA would be similar to kickstarter. For example, enough people want a feature, Dan says X Euro please and it will take X weeks to do it. If money goal is met, people get the feature they want, everybody happy.

I wrote about that too earlier a couple of times... Sometimes you would have great styles, but some instruments are so low...they sound like somebody walking in manure in rubber boots. With octave adjustment for individual instruments it would be whole new game.

+1 for Octaves!!!

Hi Dan. Is this the new version? If so, may I please have it?
Or you were just replying to some question?

Thank you,
M.

I have  Agaton's TA sound set.
Overall (95%) it is compatible with VA.  There is always some tweaking will be needed (almost with any soundfont banks) Overall, I am pleased as some main instruments I am using are there and they are great quality (for soundfonts of course) It responds to program changes, etc.  I only have 8gb of RAM, but have no issues with lagging, running VA with TA soundset + couple of instruments through Sample Tank and couple in Kontakt at same time.
I have tried several other SF2 banks. TA is still my main choice.
Hope it helps.

Hi everyone.
This is probably old beat up question, but I was hoping somebody can guide me in the right direction. I am using VA to write backing tracks (not to play along with it)

I have Kontakt 5 and SF2 banks that I am using. Kontakt  does not use bank change/no GM mode. So I overcame this by connecting Korg nano kontrol and assigning volume controls for example for SF2 and VST of same channel. Then, when recording track, when program changes,  manually raising volume of one instrument and increasing of the other. I hope I am making sense here

Is there a more elegant way to overcome program change which is not possible with VST as compared to the one that I am using?

Would appreciate a good thought.

Thank you.

This is how I done it. Disabled windows defender to  download file. As soon as I
turned defender back on, it found it and erased VA files.
I overcame this problem like this:
Disabled windows defender to download file.  I created a defender exclusion/allowed folder (VA folder) only
then I was able to fully save it to that folder. After, I turned defender back on. Hope this helps to some future
people.

DjTony, Styleworks does have logic and it works, do not get me wrong, but user interface and whatever clutter of code that was used to write it,  is close to obsolete. It just I hope that something better comes up in the future.  A friend has it, I tried it on i7 machine...  

So Dan do not think this forum is for whiny babies, I got to give him credit. Dan, VA is an awesome program!  Since I bought it, I have composed over 25 vocal tracks with backing tracks I made on VA. It got me in musical spirit again   Thank you!

But I ask you, to please consider some of very interesting ideas that people share here. Good deeds pay off eventually.

Anazaris, I believe you misunderstood me. I said: to incurrage larger donations, Dan could offer one of his soundbank for free to those who donate 100 euros...

I think standard  donation of 10-40 euro to bring such feature to life would be fair, but those who might want to try Dan's soundbanks, it might be an opportunity to do both.

Anyway, theories, theories....

Dan, just find somebody who can code for you on hourly or project base. I know, it is not very easy to find somebody good and reasonable, but on the other hand it is not terribly complicated stuff.

Dan, thank you for reply. Polyphone...it would not be convienent to re-number complete banks with hundrds of sounds... and especially 2 or more banks.
For example, if you have one complete bank that sounds better for Yamaha styles and another one that sounds better for Roland... Right now as I understand, you can either use one or the other if they share same banks etc. The only way to incorporate them is to make something in the middle, losing half of the sounds, auditioning and this will take many many hours to complete. And that will happen with any new banks. Just saying it would be a great feature to have... to be able to have different banks connected even if they share same banks

DjTony1981, I tried EMC and personally I think it works, BUT it is way (WAY!!!) outdated, overpriced, underdeveloped and not a user friendly product.  I know, it is only one "universal" at the moment... but looks like developer gave up on it years ago . I sincerely hope this will not be a case with Dan.  Your point on collaborators, I believe is excellent and would be the perfect solution to ease the pain of people who are waiting for long time to get certain bugs fixed or minor features added.

Here is a life story and maybe a suggestion.

When I built my site (not related to music) it was all custom made for me, with a lot of tricky stuff and such. When my friend developer got a full time job and was not able to do it for me at the pace I needed, I hired a programmer and she done sections of work for me at reasonable rate on demand.

Average coders get 18-30 Euro an hour
Good coders 40-60 Euros
Best - more

.. Anyway the point I am trying to make is this: 
To get the code written for stylemaker/editor I would estimate about 60-80 hours of programming, given that some base work is already done and the idea path is laid out. With good coder, labor will cost roughly 2500-3000 euros.
Dan can ask hundreds of his customers who can contribute to project and just subcontract somebody who can do the code work. That would be my approach, if time did not permit to invest in the project.   Dan would keep his rights and credits, somebody will get a job gig and many of us would be happy.... And most likely Dan will be able to sell more copies of VA.

Also

To spark interest for bigger donations Dan can offer one of his soundbanks for free as a promotion, with donations lets say of 100 Euros to the style making project

olivier71500, thank you for reply.

I believe Dan released 4 banks.... It would be logical, if people owned more than one complete SFbanks to be able to alternate between them "on the fly"
in the similar manner that is done with VST on Varranger now.. for audition.

At some point, I will likely purchase Dan's sound bank, but without being able to alternate it will be difficult to justify.

Just curious how people alternate between 2 or more banks right now, without rebuilding whole bank structure....?

Igor "relevant".... revoicing....  I do not follow you. Revoicing is not creating styles, it is what it is... "revoicing" ...
To change actual pattern lines and record your own lines to style that is more in the line of "style creator"
For example you like the drum part from one style in Ketron and bass line in Yamaha style, it would be nice to join them to one style with ease and THEN chose your "voice" for them.
I believe this thread is about style creator....

Игорь, хош, напиши мне на П.М. и я поделюсь мнением о звуках, может пригодиться.
всех благ.

Dan,  It is good to be alive!!! Welcome back

I am not sure how helpful this would be... but here it goes.
If I had the knowledge of programming I would do this for style mixer:

1)Have a folder where you "drop" the styles of any keyboard (Yamaha, Roland, Ketron etc) which you want to take advantage of.
2)Have these files batch universalised to proprietary ( VA format?) which would take all parts: Intros, mains, breaks and group them by type.
3) User assigns any part of the dissected (universalised) style to any part of  "user style"
4) User saves style, and plays through VA, like any other style.

I took time today and made a short clip of how Yamaha implemented pattern making on their sequencer app. Maybe it will give you some ideas.
Anyway, here it is:

https://youtu.be/2braY_NyQsY

Yamaha, had done this type of pattern / style creation since their QY70, 20 years ago (1997). Of course it was only for yamaha styles , but was very solid and stable.
If you interested in the logic, check out this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6xZ0XvsRGA

anazariz, well said!
Hope is something... that people say "dies last"   As anazariz said, I too, want just want to know.
Styleworks I believe is the only software that is able to do fun stuff with styles, but it is way outdated and clunky.

I think users deserve a simple answer from Dan. I do not believe that is too much to ask. Dan, please answer.
Thank you.

Ok, a long one, for the ones in opposition.
Igor, Nikola. Your points are valid, but I do not feel you understand
bigger picture. It happens. Do not worry   Bugs should be fixed in
Varranger . I agree 100%. Absolutely!

What this topic is about..., that most likely Dan has an idea for STYLE CREATOR and most likely some programming was done already. If
it is a paid labor, it will give him initiative to work on it... Unless he won the lottery or became a drunkard, which I doubt. There is NO good software that I  know of that will allow to do style mixing/creating, ALL of the stuff out there is outdated rubbish. I rather have something that works 95% than do not have something, that I know I will ENJOY.  What bothers me is that Dan is keeping his lips tight. Any kind of solid answer would be appreciated.
For example:
1) I am working on it, Beta should be ready in a several month
2) I am working on it, it will be 100000 Euro when it is done as a separate purchase
3) I want to make it, but not sure how much / how many people want to contribute
4)I want to do it, but I have 10 children to take care of and will not happen for few years
5)I do not have plans to release such feature in near or distant future

Why it is important to me? Because I gave up most of my hardware and switched mainly to software for making music. This feature is very
important to me. If this feature is not coming... I should look into other options by purchasing/learning other software. But Dan is making
one, I will surely wait and when it is ready, I do not mind to pay for it.

Dan anything you want to say or add?

Игорь, you get what you pay for. I think it is nice that Dan is maintaining the program, but to have a muscle feature such as creating a new style from ANY given styles, I would not mind to pay for! And I am certain that some of us would not mind to pay as well, to bring such feature to life.

I know there are some programs out there that can do that, but they are in LIMBO. Nobody updated them for many years. Not intuitive, buggy stuff. It is like ghost from 1990s.

Are you here for the music? Look at big picture! The only way to trully make VA more creative is to make style creator.
Modular is the way to go. For example, Igor Electronician does not want to buy it, because he do not need it, and he do not have to.  Dan is offering  his soundbanks....I believe at about 100e or so. I do not need them, but I think price is fair, if they are good. Do they have imperfecions? I am sure they do! But if I needed, I would buy it. 

In any case, would love to hear from Dan, if style creator is possible or not. There have been talks on this forum for a few years now... Dan you are reading this. Don't be shy. Can you answer please?

Thank you.

Pekilik, I think you are 100% correct. I wrote almost same thing couple of days ago. It would be nice to have a style creator that Dan talked about 5 years ago in this topic and some other things that people desire. If people paid for vArranger, I am sure many will pay for major update, such as style creator for example.

Dan, not sure why you do not want to try this. Make a private poll and see what your customers are ready to pay. It is a bit fustrating o see people asking for certain logical items, but Dan does not reply. It would be a shame to see vArranger get outdated... like many software titles in similar categories. The problem I see, that people who developed similar products were of age. They have made something woking and that was it. But Dan, you are one of the youngest of them., you know that to keep pouct alive, you have to develop it. Not sure what seems to be the problem, if people are offering you to pay for it willingly. Would love to hear back.

One future feature that can be very useful is selecting between whole soundfont banks.
Right now, as I understand you can load one complete soundfont "bank", but all other instruments have to be loaded individually or as VST.
What if: You have 2 or more complete banks... It would be nice if you can choose on individual tracks to send Midi to soundfont bank 1 or 2 or 3 of your choice, to see what sounds better

Maybe it is possible, and I just do not know how? Without any special VST hosts such as samplelord or TX16WX?...

Lylo, thank you! I thought that I am alone on this

Bachus, thank you for the reply...but... The whole reason behind NOT to use midi is not to get results that you do not want and spend long time tweaking from track to track from one composition to another etc.

vArranger is... -You get what you hear. And that is what I like. Straight forward, no surprises. With midi outputting, channeling, streaming using different VST hosts for same set of sounds, latency, etc... is like opening a door to hell to me of sitting and tweaking instead of doing music

Since vArranger mix generator is there already, it should be fairly simple to create a "save" option of "unmixed" tracks.

DjTony.

I am sorry to say, but I think Roland VST is junk. I have tried both versions, the one for PC as VST and one they released for ipad/iphone.
Sounds are very dull and outdated. They resampled old stuff. Yes, you get few good kicks out of it, but overall there are much better banks out there.

Just an opinion of somebody who actually tried it

I use mostly soundfont banks and some VST for certain instruments in VArranger, so to transfer exact sound formula to Daw is possible, but very time consuming and this change from track to track. It is much simpler to make a complete rough cut track in VA than with midi in DAW imported from VA. Maybe it is just me, but I preffer working with audio tracks, not midi tracks for effects, automation and final mix when adding vocals.
I wish that Dan (hope you reading this) would do this. Do you want this feature? It is going to be X amount of money. More complex, more money, less complex, less money. Sort of crowd funding features that users want.

I am surprised this did not gathered any posts....
I know that many users use VA on live setups, but I am sure some of users use it for composition/songs. Of course it is easy as the way it is to have a single mixed wav in one file...  What I encounter frequently, if I do not like how a particular instrument sounds in DAW after importing WAV, I would have to go back to VA and remix it again... and again.... In Daw it is easy to do automation (volume and effects) for specific track with "ribbon" and "anchor points" which is not possible in arranger. I think separate audio tracks for each instrument in recording in VA is an easy solution for track automation...

Otherwise it would require complicated setup with soundfont bank in DAW and midi that always tends to create problems in translating. Solid WAV tracks are easier to work with...  It is possible now, but that means "recording" each track in VA in SOLO mode.

Would love to hear opinions from somebody if somebody has a more elegant solution.

There had been some posts, including mine about channeling VA to DAW directly... it is possible, but complicated +latency. Or Midi file....but that will also require tunning for everything... extra plugins to store soundfonts or hardware.
Maybe it was discussed, but here is the idea I have:

It would be nice to be able to output individual audio tracks from VA of composition. Meaning, instead of having one file WAV, to have it broken down to audio tracks. That way you can import them to DAW of choice on separate tracks and tweak them to liking.... Like using Volume and Effects Envelope automation, VST effect chains etc. If my logic is correct, it should not be difficult to add such feature.

Anybody agree?

Control over octave regardless of the end point sound generator would be nice at some point in life
As Dan mentioned there are a couple of programs that can do that, But it will never be fluid. Dan, you have the knowledge, I am sure you are capable of making a decent style editor /creator /mixer that can for example change octaves of different tracks...(and many other good things)    .  People are not easy giving up money, but I am sure there will be enough folks who can support this project.  Will be totally fair to sell it as individual program or a separate paid plugin for vArranger.

All other software that is available is just outdated, overpriced and not easy to understand. vArranger in my opinion is the only one that can actually progress.

P.s. I did not want to start another topic, but it would be great to have a posibility to add individual vst effect to individual channel. 

Hi Dan.
May I have the latest version please.
P.S. I hope it includes the fix for high resolution monitor.

Thank you.

When style sounds wrong, because octave is too low or too high in arrangement and there is no way to address this... this is function, not extras.
It is core composition editing, which in my view is very important.

Dan is maintaining program well and helped me when I had an issue with program in timely fashion, however... probably most of people who wanted vArranger, already bought it and besides standard updates and bug fixes there is no avid ambition to bring major additions such as style creator, etc.. I completely understand that.

Since Dan is deeply familiar with this type of programming, maybe it is a good idea to "CROWD FUND" projects. And have "paid" modules such as comprehensive style editor / creator.  There are so many members... I am sure, that if asked (in the form of email perhaps, because most of users do not visit this forum frequently), there should be a solid group willing to kick start / sponsor a project.

Dan you can totally do it! Do not give up!

Igor.... abide yes. But being able to change, if needed, absolutely. There is a difference between musical box (sharmanka, to bish) and flexible software.
Especially, software that is made for creative aspect in life and not for factory manufacturing

Hi Dan,
it is (might be...) a very good news. But I believe, if you going to trickle with the matter, why not do a universal octave selection for any style? That might be very helpful for future development. I know that setup (programming) for this might be tricky, but at the end, there is only one value that will change in style.

Issue is when making arrangement, one or more chord sections in "song chords"  would sound low or high and there is no way to change that. It would be useful to have +1, +2, +3 and -1, -2, -3 choices for the octaves, regardless of "actual" octave playing.

I think ability to change accompaniment octaves would help greatly with the creative aspect of arrangements. It is all about creativity, right?

Cautiously optimistic

Was hoping to get an answer on this...

I believe this topic came up several times before... Many times when composing arrangement, I would encounter that accomponiment is playing in different octave than desired result. I would think, naturally you should be able to change the octave +\- in acc tracks As of now there is no option to do this.... Dan, can you please tell me and perhaps some other users who are interested in this topic if it is in plans for near future updates?

VArranger is a great program, but honestly this issue is very frustrating.

I would appriciate feedback on this. Thank you.

Olivier, thank you for reply. I started having a feeling that I am talking to myself.

Still, it is very strange to me that there is no conversation about it, especially in this forum. I thought that people who have vArranger are interested in "arranging" or "arrangement" and I am specifically talking about just that.  As I mentioned before, probably most people on this forum never experienced an easy way of changing structure of the styles, that is why, I believe just a couple of people replied. 

Well, the only way I see of inspiring conversation about this is making a video of how it is done on Yamaha app.  I am busy next week, but will try to make a video shortly after.

I hoped somebody would answer this for me.  I guess it is not possible to do what I want to do, Have sort of  "BLANK" spots to  insert in "SONG CHORDS" to add custom brakes or fills by desired length...

I believe to truly make vArranger a powerhorse program, a style editor is needed.
I wrote couple of times before, but to my surprise nobody ever replied to these threads.   I am assuming people did not reply, because they never experienced easy way to mix styles parts.  You can create very unique sounding styles using thousands of available ones... Mix different genres, etc.

Yamaha had hardware sequencers, such as QY series and also Yamaha has a iPad sequencer app that can mix styles on the fly, but it is limited to internal styles of app. Still, you can create a totally different sounding style in the matter of a few minutes from any parts of any styles.

I am sure Dan has some ideas on it already... If some of us decided to support this project, to pay for developing time, then maybe?, Dan can make one as a separate purchase plugin.  vArranger is one of the best programs for styles, but I believe the weakest point is style editor.

Any thoughts?

Guys, I started this tread not to promote Sample Tank3   It was free with minimal hardware purchase (midi to PC adapter), which I wanted anyway. Just wanted to share.
Yes, it is absolutely not the best stand alone sound engine for vArranger, BUT for free there are some very usable instruments that could be used as substitute, layered or solo instruments with other sound engines that were tuned for vArranger.

Anybody?

Well, not really with Sample Tank 3. It is basically a large non GM sound bank. For example you if have free or outdated bank SF2 format, it will play most of styles correctly, but also having a Sample tank as VST would allow you to have more choices to substitute individual basic sounds on tracks to more realistic sounds or even play them as layered sounds, SF2 sound + Sample tank sounds at the same time. But it has to be done manually.

DjTony,
The question is a bit different. In "Song Chords" it is not possible (To write it into grid) to start Fill in in the Middle  of the measure or have a silence bar for custom bar.
This is what I am asking.

Hi Dan.
Can you please answer this one for me.

In the "Song Chord" section. Lets assume song is 4/4, Measure is divided by four sections.
Most of brakes are taking full measure (4 parts). In many tracks I make, I want to use just 2 sections or even 1 section
for break and then continue to another Variation part. Many songs have just a single drum hit for break...

As of now, it is possible to do this only is playing arrangement live and pressing the "FILL IN / BREAK" button in the
middle of the measure. This way, it will start the "FILL IN" section in the middle and would return to variation of
the next measure. Is there a way to reserve custom sections for "Fill Ins" sections in "Song Chords"?

For example, what I want to do:
I play arrangement through "Song Chords" and have a reserved "silence" space.
When recording,  I select drums as instruments and just play "break" using midi controller, if given "Fills" of the style do not
work well in composition. Is something like this possible?
I hope I am being clear on this...

I am not sure if anybody asked that before, but I would very much would like to know.

Thank you.

Dan, It is not crucial, but it would be nice at some point to have separate controls for panning.

Jimliver,  You select it (Sample tank) as VST instrument in vArranger and than you can choose (or substitute) any instrument of the style track(s) to the instrument(s) of Sample Tank. If I remember correctly, you right click on the track and it will show you output for VST of your choice.

Hi Everyone. Just got myself a nice toy, Korg Nanokontrol 2. I was able to program everything I wanted except for panning knobs.
It seems there is only one option in "controller" setting, not for individual tracks  like volumes, mutes etc.
I know a few of users here have Nanokontrol. Can  somebody please tell me how to program pan (upper knobs) for multiple channels?
Thank you.

haweneu,  I am just guessing here, but I believe you are talking about a physical SD1000 unit....

I want to know about the TA sound engine, that was so much talk about in this forum. How and what is compared to in terms of physical hardware.
And also the cost of it. So far agaton is keeping it a mystery.

Hope to hear from him, and I believe others too.

Ok... sounds interesting... but how much is it and where tu buy?

Agaton, I would like to know the following. I assume, gathering from posts since 2015,  that TA sound engine is SF2 bank in GM that is tuned to work with vArranger. Is this correct?

How does it sound compared to Ketron SD2? Better, more realistic or about same? You had a conversation with a guy here some time ago, who has made SD2 sf2 bank, which sounds very good, nearly identical compared to actual hardware unit.

Let me know. Oh yes, where it is possible to hear it and what is the cost?

Thank you.

Yes, me too please.

Hi.
Since 2015 there was much talk about TA Sound engine... Is it available or it is still "work in progress"?
Would like to know.

Thank you.

Lylo,
Thank you for reply. Yes, bass works with "transpose" in sampletank.
About the drums... it is very sad there is no GM function mapping.
In any case, I found some drum kits with GM mapping for Sampletank on internet. Some guy re-mapped several kits to use with sampleank. If you are interested, I can share.

Hello Lylo.
After several hours of unsuccessful testing, somebody from KVR forum solved the issue. It was FX that are automatically set on in Sampletank. Meaning each instrument had 4 effects turned on by default, so 2 tracks would have 8 effects running...I turned couple of them off and voilà clean sound.

Lylo, since you are nice guy on this forum, can you please tell me how to properly send drums and bass to sampletank?
It seems drums have wrong mapping and bass playing in lower octave. Other instruments play as they should.


Thank you.

Hello.
  Does anybody use Sampletank 3 and vArranger? I am having some issues with playback.
I mainly use SF2 bank, which is good, but usually there is 1 or 2 instruments that I want to replace (such as pianos and guitars).  I get pops and clicks in vArranger trying to play only 2 tracks with Sampletank VST (all other tracks are muted) I tried 3 audio cards: Roland external usb card (Asio driver), Yeti Pro (Asio driver) and onboard Realtek (asio4all driver).
  Actually the best results I got was with Realtek, but still distortions such as pop/ clicks. I tried changing buffer on Asio within 3 setups from 512 to 1400+ and it did not help. Can anybody suggest something to fix this? I tried a few other VSTs in vArranger on same computer, never had this problem.

Thank you in advance.

I know, it is a dream.... (sorry for horrible design, just idea layout)

I miss Yamaha QY70 / QY100 pattern mixing. Mixing parts of various parts was extremely easy, making possibilities endless. I did not want to give up this toy
until 2012, just got too obsolete.

Maybe one day...

Dan,
Thank you VERY MUCH!!!

I am sure, it will help many people in the future because there are fantastic VSTs that are just not developed further.

Dan, sure. I elect to be a laboratory rabbit
I sent you ID

Thank you!

mbaggio65,
thank you, but I do not think it will work. The program vArranger displays correctly but a plugin that would not resize is DLL.
90%+ of plugins do not have re-scale ability. Daws such as Sonar, FL and others made changes to their program, so plugins would display correctly.

I assume, Dan would have to give it a thought, as many machines these days will have higher resolution and many plugins (especially older ones) that are used by musicians will not display correctly.

Dan, if you are reading this, I downloaded free version of Sample Tank yesterday, hoping that maybe their VST would display correctly, since it is a newer one. No, it does not. It is also tiny as with all others I tried.

Thank you.

Hello.
Just curious if anybody had issues with VST size (scaling) on high resolution monitor using vArranger?
I have Surface Pro and VSTs in vArranger are tiny, not usable. They appear normal in Sonar (on same system)

I read that there was a known problem in FL and other systems with high resolution, but fix was made inside host programs to what is called "legacy scaling". I could not find anything useful as to how to solve this alternative way. I was wondering if anybody had experienced that and how it was solved.

I wrote to Dan a few days ago, but did not heard back...

Thank you.

To whom it may interest.
There is amazing promotion at IK media. You can buy $100 keys or MIDI adapter ($79)
and get FULL Sample tank 3 ($300 value) free.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/news/?item_id=10028

I thought someone might be interested.

Lylo, Thank you!!!

Lylo, yes, it is same screen.
When lunched as stand alone program, size ok.
When as VST plugin 1/2 size and no option to make it larger. Very tiny text/control.

I assume it is not like that on your computer?

Lylo, can you please look at two photos here.
It is not normal size right?

Lakere, thank you. Yes, I tried that program. It works, but I have decided to use VST and TX16W for the reason that it will route better  as "natve" plugin to Sonar and no need to switch drivers all the time.

I took few hours yesterday per Lylo suggestion and I believe I figured out my workflow. I can do rough audition of style with SF2 bank which is tuned well and then audion separate tracks with better Independence VST in vArranger jand then use these two items (bank and VST) in Sonar to record separate tracks.


Lylo, since you use Independence, can you please tell me if there is a way to make screen of VST larger? When I open Independence as stand alone, it is good size, when as VST it is very small, not scaleable to larger size.... How it is in your system, is it also small, or it has something to do with my resolution?

Thank you.

Lylo,
I agree the step by step learning is needed, but learning has to start somewhere
Tweaking, effects all the other many things, yes it will take long time to grasp, I understand.
I just want to know if there is not too complicated way to get Independence to audition styles universally.

Meaning, I am not looking for a master sound right out of the box.
To find proper style for a song, sometimes I audition 50-70 styles and when I find the one I want, then I tweak it by changing instruments, volumes, envelopes, effects etc.  I just need a basic audition ability, so to understand what the style is about.

As I understand there is no straight General Midi (basic) mode on the Independence VST using Independence own sound library or a bank that would do basic audition in vArranger?


Thank you

Lylo, thank you for trying to explain.

I am like 11 year old child... I know some things about midi, but not enough.
When I am using my SF2 bank, most of styles are played more or less correct. I can change instruments in vArranger on right side and add effects.

As I understand, to use Independence I would need to program a complete bank, basically almost a completely new set of sounds for each style  on 16 track
mixer. Meaning changing a specifics of set of 128 instruments for GM?

Sorry for not intelligent questions, I admit it is a lot of new material for me. 

Lylo,
Thank you for your suggestions!
Independence sounds are super nice and it seems the software is very flexible.
Can you please guide me how to merry it to vArranger so overall styles play nice?

I am guessing, I will need MAGIX Independence Basic with 12gb library to start. I point vArranger to VST What happens then?
Is there a specific bank I have to load or how it is done? Can you please give me a scenario for basic playback please? There are many tutorials out there, but I could not find a specific for vArranger.

Thank you in advance,
Mikhail.

Lylo, can you please guide me in my quest. It still relates to
recording to Sonar (this thread) so I decided not to start another
one.

I use vArranger for not complex backing tracks for my songs. I have used SD2 module, but then bought a SF2 bank based on the SD2 and it
plays, I would say 90%+ accurate to original. Good enough for my needs. Than I ran into issue, where I was not able to record audio
(solo) from vArranger to Sonar track live...

I decided that instead of trying to record from vArranger directly, I can find a VST player that can use my SF2 bank and use it directly in
Sonar to record solos from midi keyboard. I found a couple like Bassmidi VSTi which is able to load my SF2 bank etc, but it is very
limited. One of the main features for me is to choose instrument by type as we have in vArranger. Guitars with guitars, Pianos with pianos
etc.  I was reading your posts from past couple of years, but still did not come to conclusion on the software sampler/ soundbank.
-------------------

My first priority is have a simple interface and operation for plugin (VST?) that can be used in vArranger (without major tweaking) and
Sonar with same soundset and so the names of the patches correspond everywhere to their sounds and instruments sorted/selected by type.

My second priority is sound quality. It does not have to be 40gb files, just a good balanced set with possibility to get / upgrade
instruments.  ..with an idea, that random styles in vArranger would sound decent without a lot of tweaking (GM mode) Hopefully a price of $100-$150 or near that.

I know you talked about a few like Halion Sonic and Magix sampler couple of years ago.  Maybe you can suggest the route I should take on
this. Simplicity of use is my goal on this.

Sorry for the long write up and thank you for your time.

Guys, thank you for trying to help!

I called Presonus they said that Presonus 22VSL is not multiclient. Than I called NI about their Komplete 6 interface, which is advertised as multiclient, but when I explained to tech support what I want to accomplish, he said that it would not work that way.
I was able to make banana meeter  to partially work, but it does not like multiple audio recordings and after couple of audio takes, sound shutters.
there is always a way use second soundcard and route vArranger with actual cable.

My original idea is to use same soundset in vArranger and Sonar, I use SF2 bank for vArranger, but I found only Vsampler VST that loads same bank to Sonar, but it has many issues. It is outdated, buggy, 32bit and what is most important for me it does not categorize sounds by instrument type...

I guess, will keep trying to find something like Vsampler vst to make use of SF2 bank I have in Sonar, but 64bit and with instruments sorted by category.

Lylo and Agaton, thank you for the suggestions!! I did get Banana voicemeeter to work, but it is a lot of tweaking with audio routing given onboard soundcard, not a good workflow for me... Honestly, I spent hours trying to find a way using all kinds of virtual cables etc... Just want something simple and stable.
Even mighty Dan did not have elegant solution.

Since software solution for routing is less than perfect, maybe somebody can suggest entry/mid level soundcard interface (usb) that would support multi client natively to do just that, record from vArranger to Sonar without extra software except for native drivers.

This is my last piece of home studio puzzle that I can not solve.

would appreciate any thoughts.

thank you.

Agaton, maybe we are talking about different things... Just to prove my point, I tried something else... I have a xkey compact keyboard. They have a stand alone windows software "Pianos" just some very basic pianos... I am able to record audio to Sonar from that app, by selecting "Stereo Mix" input in Sonar and playing that piano, in its own program which has nothing to do with Sonar using Wasapi, without noticeable latency.

I read that Dan discussed that exclusivity with someone before, but I do not believe that solution was reached.

Not sure how to solve it with vArranger.

Agaton, I believe it is possible, because I am able to launch audioplayer (winamp) play track and record audio Live from Winamp to Sonar by selecting "Realtek Stereo Mix" as input in Sonar. I just can not record vArranger "Stereo Mix"
P.S. also Sonar has "Wasapi Shared mode".

Thank you for tips. After several hours I narrowed to what ideally would work.

I do not mind lower quality built in card. I have surface pro 3(i5) with standard Realtec card. There is an option to "Enable Stereo Mix" on actual internal sound card driver. I am able to record any audio from computer audio players to Sonar, BUT I can not, for some reason do it from vArranger.

I believe it is happening because Wasapi exclusive mode in vArranger. This "Stereo Mix" would be perfect (and exactly what I looked for) for my needs and I believe latency would be very minimal because of native hardware and native code of the soundcard to support this feature. Can anybody shine a light if this "Stereo Mix" mode can be routed to Sonar ?

Lylo, thank you for suggestion! I tried Virtual cable, but could not get it right. Very choppy sound with internal or external sound card (Roland Duo capture).
vArranger was around for some years now, but I can not find anything on forum that addresses this.

I can go very primitive way by physically patching internal sound card OUT to external sound card IN port with cable, but I believe there should be some smarter solution.

I am open to any other suggestions or scenarios to record live (audio) from vArranger to Sonar Daw.

Hello folks.
Can somebody help me figure out how to record live sound from vArranger to Sonar please. This is my scenario: I record arrangement to wav file inside vArranger.
I import that wav file to Sonar. I record my vocals in Sonar. Now I want to add a solo or such, using vArranger synth as sound source. I know there are some soundfont synths that work with Sonar, however, I would prefer to use vArranger for the ease of sound selection, etc.
Is there a way to route actual audio(not midi) to Sonar from vArranger? Meaning playing tracks in Sonar and recording a live track to Sonar from vArranger.

Please help.
Thank you,
Mikhail.

BjayG,
I do not agree with you on the standard update. To program a style editor, I would imagine will take a very long time,  because ideally the "dream" style mixer would allow to use different parts of styles created for different keyboards/sequencers. Example would be Bass line  from Roland style and Wind instrument line from Yamaha style.
I can see Dan doing improvements to the program through the time. (I finally was able to afford to buy vArranger), but more or less it is a complete stand alone program.   I believe, majority of people who use it are working with styles and I see no better (stronger) tool in future of vArranger other than style editor. Making it as a separate plugin would make sense, as some people would not need it at all. I am all in for modular purchases. That would probably give Dan initiative to invest time to make great things for vArranger. For example, vArranger has "Song Chord" menu, I wish it was more elaborate, similar to a Windows program called ChordPulse, but I understand that it would take quite a few hours to do something similar so as one saying goes: You get what you get and you do not get upset

Hi Everyone!
I have used some of earlier Yamaha sequencers such as QY70 and QY100. What I trully loved about these is the fact that you can mix styles (and parts of the styles) and audition them on the fly. Separate lines of styles were interchangeable with others. There was an option creating a whole new "user" style from any parts of other styles on board of QY sequencer in the matter of minutes.

Long story short... I was wondering how many people would like to have style editor/creator within vArranger? I believe it would be fair to make this as an optional, paid update. I would gladly pay 50 to 100 euro for an update like this. Not sure how Dan feels about this, but I thought I would ask users what they think about it and maybe it will convince Dan to make style editor in the future? 

Best regards,
Mike.