vArranger Forums

@Christoph: welchen Mini-PC verwendest du?

On the French forum Dan was teasing a new version in November '22.

It is beyond my understanding how he was able to provide so many updates for free before he had the idea to charge for a yearly update subscription and has not managed to deliver anything since then (three years already).

At this point I cannot recommend for anyone buying into vArranger. As long as my USB stick keeps working I will be using vArranger. Hopefully Dan can deliver and restore his reputation, but right now I will not be holding my breath. Everyone should be looking for an exit strategy at some point.

 It is sad that it has come to this. But let us regard vArranger as what it is: a hobbyist's software made  for his own uses and made available to others for purchase through a dubious website (is it a registered business?) where he communicates and provides support at his own fancy and provides updates as he pleases. Enough said.

I was in a similar situation that I had ,,lost" my installation files and needed to contact Dan. I had to pay, too, but I saw the responsibility with me. Keeping backups of installation files of your most important if not all software is just good housekeeping. I second the suggestion to check your quarantined files with Windows Defender.

On the other hand I can understand your frustration with the subscription cost and no updates received since. Three years after Dan had come up with this idea and was supported by many users to go ahead with a subscription, we all hopefully have realized that a potential update is just vaporware by now. I do not expect anything anymore.

I keep using vArranger more than ever. It does what I need it to do, but my exit strategy in case my dongle should fail one day is to rely on hardware arrangers.

Thirdly, Dan should purchase Cantabile and then keep subscribed to the yearly updates and observe how it is done. From one-to-one email support within 24 hours to the implementation of new features based on user votes, Brad's handling of his software and customer base is stellar.

Moving is no fun until it's done.

Been there before, done it.


Hopefully, when Dan is settled in, he can finalize the update.

The only modifications I do sometimes is to exchange a drum set or accompaniment instrument if it does not sound pleasing to me. This is usually done in a minute or two, saved, and forgotten.


For all the justified complaints Dan has been getting over the past 2+ years regarding the lack of the next update, I want to point out, I would buy vArranger again in a heartbeat since it gives me a relatively low cost and moddable software arranger/organ that can rival hardware instruments sonically if one takes time to make it work for one. It is not perfect, but pretty close.

Dan,

Is there a way to assign the FX1 effect (that can be adjusted for each VST separately) to a Midi controller knob? I could not find anything in the Controller Assignment submenu. It would be great if it were assignable for quick reverb adjustments without having to fiddle with the VST windows.

I don't want to stir up the already messy update situation again, but I really urge Dan not to hold everyone hostage to what Ketron might do when they do see fit or not. If Ketron decide to solve the issue in all earnest, we still could be many months away until they solve it and Dan gets around to implement it.

I am still and again advocating for an update now without resolving the SD1000 effects situation, and once that gets sorted by Ketron (if ever) another update.

Quote from: BjayG on December 22, 2021, 01:19:26 PM
You need to admit to yourself that Dan has beaten us - as no amount of cajoling him is going to produce the update - or information - so save yourself some stress/time.     

Indeed - the best solution I recommend is to be happy and practice/play your keyboard (or look for an alternative solution).

But can I wish everyone (particularly Dan) a Great Christmas and to have a Happy and Healthy New Year.

Barry

My musings were in response to Woge's question.

I do enjoy myself playing using my current setup, version, etc.

As long as there is this forum, there is hope 

Merry XMas to everyone!

Quote from: Dan on August 25, 2019, 11:48:03 PM

The goal of the annual subscription is to select few users who likes to receive more intermediate updates during the year, for every little step rather than wait for the big step in a more long time. This also will be a little income for me to help me to continue the devs further. You can't imagine how much time I offer to the actual user base. I am sorry if I can't implement all good ideas as fast as we all want.
By the way, some good surprises are coming, keep reading this topic.

But going back to the beginning of the thread, at some point Dan must have decided to deviate from his vision what the annual subscription fee would provide: minute updates for the subscribers, and a large update at the end for the non-subscribers. Just saying....

Quote from: musicmaker84 on December 21, 2021, 05:57:37 PM
It won´t be vaporware unless Dan announces he cancelled the update or the website shuts down. Whatever comes first.... 

Actually, I might be wrong with my definition:

"Vaporware
In the computer industry, vaporware is a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is late or never actually manufactured nor officially cancelled. Use of the word has broadened to include products such as automobiles.Wikipedia"

It won´t be vaporware unless Dan announces he cancelled the update or the website shuts down. Whatever comes first.... 

In the end, this horse needs to be saddled up differently for future updates.

Dan: stop the subscription. Work on an update as long as you need or wish. Publish the update and sell it to interested vArranger users for €49 or similar. Everyone who has paid at least one year of subscription in the past 2 years, let them have the next two updates for free instead. Then, without any current or new subscribers after ending the scheme, you can relax and just focus on programming without having to justify yourself or be tempted to make promises that are at risk of being broken.

Du könntest ja erstmal alle anderen Programme kostenlos testen, um zu sehen, ob du damit klar kommst.

Falls ja, Geld gespart.

Falls nein, dann wäre vArranger vielleicht die bessere Lösung. Oder ein neuer Hardware Arranger.

Ich mag vArranger sehr, ist aber bisweilen auch Friemelei, wenn man die Möglichkeiten nutzen und anpassen möchte. Das gilt sicherlich auch für professionelle Keyboards, aber dort sind auch die "eingebauten" Klänge, Styles und Funktionen erstmal aus einem Guss. vArranger ist mehr ein Betriebssystem. Ich steuere momentan darüber Yamaha und Roland Styles im Zusammenspiel mit meinem Korg und nutze die Klänge vom Wersi Pegasus Wing (im Prinzip ein Hypersonic2 Software synth, den ich auch über vA steuern kann).

Einige Highlights von vA: 4 Layer links und rechts, auch velocity abhängig schaltbar. Schnelle Umschaltung von vordefinierten Sounds.  VST-Host. Soundfonts nutzbar. Läuft äußerst stabil. Spiele mit dem Gedanken mir eine BlackBox anzuschaffen, um diese vom vA zu steuern.

I would second Dan's plan to release 1.20 independently from the problems with the Ketron module as many users do not use it. The ones who are will have the benefit of using the stable new features that 1.20 brings to the table while there is hope to make the DSPs work properly in a future update. I think this will serve the interests of all vArranger users the best imho.

I want to stress I do not imply it was a ploy. Just a plan to fund current and future development. Of course, people were hopeful it meant regular annual updates.

Probably most of us agree that things could have been handled differently since Dan introduced the subscription-donation scheme.

One of the obvious conclusions has to be that any announcements regarding a date are highly unreliable for reasons mostly unknown.

My decision shortly before my renewal date was coming up after the first year was to cancel the subscription until a new update is ready and of interest to me. This has saved me all the emotions others are going through because of it.
vArranger has worked for and keeps working for me as it is in its current state. Any future updates that offer new functionality for my scenario are welcome. Whenever this might happen, I am going to subscribe again.

Bbox müsste doch auch über vArranger eingebunden werden können.

Das wäre sowieso meine Frage: welche Bbox-Version ist besser eingebunden ins Bedienkonzept? Die für Genos oder die Box für OAS?

Genos scheint mir da aber auch etwas zukunftssicherer zu sein. Was machst du, wenn deine Wersi den Geist aufgibt?

Übrigens, ich hab auch mal den neuesten Wersinus 3.0 VST angetestet. Das geht schon stark in Richtung Helios und CD Sinusklang.

This is how I do it, and how I save sounds without problems.

I just verified. I'm not sending on Ch.1 solely. I use Hypersonic as VST 2. When I change sounds they show correctly on R1 or L1. I have to check next time what happens when I layer them. I rarely have the necessity to layer sounds within vArranger but will try.

I never regarded vArranger as a cheaper alternative but as a more or less future prove flexible arranger platform and VST host.

I got my money's worth over the years using and mostly enjoying it.

Should Dan decide he has had it and abandon further development, I hope he would conceive a way first to run it without copy protection.

Should 1.20 be everything everyone is hoping for in terms of new features and fixes, there is no reason to not consider longterm.

I am happy with 1.19 for the most part, but my requirements might be different from the power users. There are still days I only use my hardware arrangers as well as times that I solely enjoy vArranger and think it's the next best thing after sliced bread.

 I did not get to play vArranger the past weeks until last night. And I decided not to fiddle with it but make music. Today I am going to check my settings. I remember vArranger couldn't display correct instruments before 1.18 or so. Just to be sure: are you using 1.19?

The PA700 is still a great arranger that I use myself stand-alone or together with VA. You won't regret buying the PA700.

I don't have problems with Hypersonic 2 to show correct instruments. I don't recall the exact settings right now, but will check next time.

Thanks Dan.

Could it be made optional? I really would like for it to be routed as assigned in right/left voice. Otherwise the PC changes the PA 700 receives when I only want to use the VST for specific patches renders the integration less useful in my use case scenario.

Hi Dan,

I recently tried to integrate my PA 700 into my vArranger setup.

I decided to use it at home as MIDI 1 Out. I learned to program left and right hand sounds through vArranger. No problem there.

Now, I also use VSTs (MIDI Out 2) with vArranger being the host and VSTs outside vArranger but being controlled by vArranger through MIDI 3 Out.

The issue I have is when I save right hand sounds that only are supposed to be via MIDI 2 Out or MIDI 3 Out (no check mark next to MIDI Out 1), the PA 700 still receives bank and program changes as if MIDI Out 1 is still enabled although it is not according to vArranger.

In other words, vArranger seems to keep ignoring the right hand voice routing not to be send via MIDI Out 1.

Is there a solution to this?

Merci beaucoup.

I actually found a solution on this forum. The Yamaha XG synth posted in tools works well with the Tyros 2 styles while my other sound bank is good enough for Roland styles. All is good for now.

Well, should be around the corner with 10 days left until August

Quote from: Dan on July 01, 2021, 04:01:33 PM
Everything is OK, the update will come this month 

He already said when.

So, it can act as a GM virtual sound module?

I have only experimented with sound banks to run the drum track and accompaniment, and this is a VST. Currently, I route the drums and accompaniment to my Korg PA 700, and it does a fine enough job with the styles I use.

But, I do not have the Korg with me in my vacation home, so an all virtual solution on my laptop is great. And while my free sound banks do the job, I wouldn't mind an upgrade. Dan's sound banks are too large for my setup. At 3 GB, this would be perfect.

Can it be used for drums and accompaniment?

Doesn't Dan offer license installs tied to a PC? I thought I had read something somewhere on here, but then you would be at the mercy of the PC.

And perhaps such licenses are safer on regular sized data sticks as your own experience with 20 years old drives versus your micro drives suggests.

DataStickPro by Centon. No movable parts, sturdy casing. Knock on wood. I have been using vArranger for 6 years by now.

Quote from: claudiodecubellis on October 17, 2020, 04:31:42 PM
Dan has never disappointed expectations and all these controversies are not constructive have patience that the update will be released sooner or later Dan is a serious person

I don't doubt Dan's integrity and good intentions. I love the software. I paid the €50 since I couldn't locate my old 1.19 version file after an SSD upgrade which I already had received before the subscription scheme had been introduced. The only version I still had saved was 1.18.

In a way, I got my money's worth since it wasn't Dan's fault that I hadn't made a backup.

So, the next time I have to pay it will depend on features made available I really want to have or not. It has nothing to do with anything beyond that.

My subscription either renews or expires in May next year.

It all depends  if there will have been by then a substantial upgrade or not. In reality, I am happy as things are atm, and I do not really need anything added for now.

Of course, if there is something in a future update  I want to use, and I would have to renew my subscription again in order to get the update, I'll pay again.

As things stand today, I just might cancel my subscription before the renewal and wait for good things to happen first.

Probably the original poster isn't reading along any longer, but for what's worth: a well known company, still in business, pulled the plug under me thrice in my lifetime losing significant investment in consumer hard- and software.

Dan's business might not be as polished, but vA, in my opinion, doesn't need much polish: it is rock stable, can be "modded" in many ways.

I built an instrument to my liking (home organ) at the fraction of the cost I would have to pay for if everything was hardware.

Drawbacks: it can be a pita to have it run with more than one midi controller without issues, hence I use Cantabile two control two more manuals.

registration memory: I agree, that vA could do with non song specific registration banks in addition to song specific ones.

harmony: still missing from vA the way it is supposed to work

Probably some other little things here and there that need some fiddling with from time to time, but overall I find vA easier to operate and be creative with than hardware arrangers I know.

Just the fact that you can have 5 (velocity) layers in the right hand, unmatched by the best arrangers to my knowledge, and an abundance of great sounding styles, is worth the fee of admission imho.

Und wie sind die Wersi Sounds so?

Ich nutze den vA mehr als je zuvor. Am Anfang hatte ich ihn nur aus Interesse gekauft, und hin und wieder genutzt. Mittlerweile nutze ich fast nur noch vArranger zusammen mit Cantabile.

Mein Ziel ist, bis auf vernünftige Midi controller, alles softwaremäßig zu realisieren.

Just to get an idea of where we stand: what are the sound banks available for vArranger as of July 2020?

And how much is the cost for each?

Ist natürlich alles ein Kompromiss.

Wie Dan sagt, es ist schwierig alles exakt zu emulieren.

Ich nutze einen Roland Soundfont für die Begleitung und Drums und eigentlich alle BK7m styles (und viele andere) laufen damit eigentlich hervorragend. Bei Yamaha styles gibt es problematische, aber dann suche ich mir eben etwas Passenderes. Ab und zu darf auch mal das PA 700 die Begleitung liefern

So ein Wersi-Experte bin ich nicht, dass ich diese Feinheiten beachte oder kenne; mir geht es eher um den "typischen" Klang, der doch anders als Hammond ist.

Wie sieht eine für dich annehmbare Lösung denn dann aus? Samples? OX-7? Eine richtige Wersi (obwohl, da gab es ja auch etliche Klangunterschiede, richtig?)?

Indeed, it would be great to keep My Sounds bar as it is and works within a song but provide an additional feature of a (hidden) "always on, always accessible" independent preset bar. Like pistons on organs where you save your most favorite combinations.

This way I can have more song specific presets within a song that I don't use up with my all time favorite presets.

Quote from: Jamkey on April 28, 2020, 11:48:03 AM
Black-oder-Rot-Box, Rot-oder-Black-OX7, eigentlich kommt es nur drauf an mit ein elegante Lösung sich für annehmbares Geld ein gut-klingendes Key zu beschaffen.
vArranger macht's möglich eigene Soundvorstellungen zu realisieren und sogar stetig aktuell zu bleiben.
Mal sehen wie lange überteuerte Geräte mithalten .....

Das gute an "überteuerten" Geräten ist es ja, alles fertig geliefert zu bekommen. vArranger ist mehr ein Flickenteppich und vieles muss händisch angepasst werden.

@Soundman: Klar, wenn man absolute Authentizität erwartet, sucht oder braucht, dann wird auch das Wer-Sinus dem nicht Stand halten. Deswegen sprach ich von "nah dran" oder Wer-Sinus als eigenständiges Modul.

Dennoch, ich behaupte man kann es gut gebrauchen, vor allem um etwas sterile Wersi Samples aufzupeppen. Geschmacksache.

Bleibt noch Keyboardpartners Modul mit Vintagelizenz. Das klingt schon noch näher am Original. Aber eigentlich will ich so gut es geht auf Expander und extra Hardware verzichten. Kann alles kaputt gehen. Mein vArranger und die VSTs werden wahrscheinlich noch in hundert Jahren als Emulation laufen können.

Aber es bleibt schon die Frage, warum es Hammondemulationen wie Sand am Meer gibt, aber an den typischen Alleinunterhalterklang unserer Breiten man nicht so einfach ohne Samples kommen kann (ausser mit einer Wersi oder Böhmorgel)

Wegen Wersi-Sounds: kenne das Problem. Bisweilen harsch wenn gesampelt, unflexibel, etc. Ein OX 7 ist eigentlich recht überteuert sofern es angeboten wird. Habe mich for ein paar Jahren deshalb für die Emulation Wer-Sinus vom EDV-Service entschieden.

Sehr brauchbar. Vielleicht nicht 100% das Original aber doch sehr nah. Klingt lebendiger als Samples (physical modeling), flexibel, und mischt sich gut mit Wersi Samples, die ich dann als Grundklangteppich gern oft nehme. Der Wer-Sinus obendrauf sorgt für Farbe und Abwechslung. Sehr durchsetzungsstark. Klingt allein auch geil.

Ich sehe ihn mehr als eigenständiges Orgelmodul denn als 100% Wersi. Macht viel Laune. Nochmals, er kommt schon sehr nah dran an.

Frage an Woge: Taugen die Lehmann Wersi Sachen für KORG wirklich etwas? Die Demos vor einem halben Kahr haben mich nicht vom Hocker gehauen.

vArranger is by far the best PC based software arranger available. It's also the most expensive one. vArranger is straight forward in some areas, in others it is unexpectedly fiddly.

You buy by just clicking the button and processing the purchase. But you will have to wait for Dan to send you an email with further instructions. Some preparation will be required. Make sure, you have got a quality USB stick available.

I was in the same boat some years ago. Steep price and no demo? But I believed that the software was as good as I thought from reading about it and watching vids on youtube. And, I believe, Dan will honor a refund should you really not be able to run it or otherwise deeply unpleased.

Quote from: lakere on May 05, 2018, 05:03:28 AM
Though I am not much of an "arranger" player, I do have some arranger keyboards and a Desktop by V3 Sound.  I bought the Desktop for its unique, good sounds.    My arranger keyboards can't easily air travel with me, but vArranger can.   You can't really beat versatility, portability, and the abilities of vArranger to handle various style formats.    Actually I bought vArranger as a patch manager, but it does a lot more than it.   It's good to know that I've got the most versatile arranger sitting in my hybrid touch screen laptop.

Yep, vArranger is so versatile and portable. Again, I will continue using it on a daily basis as I do with the Wing. I just might get the Korg though for extra sounds and versatility (just carry it from the study to the dining table or set it up on the kitchen counter for immediate play. Don't have to connect laptop to midi controller, plug usb sticlk, start up Windows and the software.)

I remember I bought vArranger in lieu of a hardware arranger. Still ended up with a Wersi Pegasus Wing last year and even eyeing a Korg PA 600.

Then again, whenever I am trying to make up my mind should I purchase or not, I remind myself how versatile vArranger is and how redundant a hardware arranger would be.

Who still sometimes just uses a hardware arranger and what are your reasons?

By the way, the Wing is a bit a different case since I am planning on attaching a pedalboard to transform it into an organ. While this could be achieved using vArranger, I find the software works best just with one manual like a hardware arranger.

While laptops with touchscreens seem great to operate vArranger, I have come to the conclusion that they do not necessarily facilitate any easier or quicker or better operation.

Poking volume sliders on a touchscreen is not really easier or faster than with the mouse. A midi fader (like nano kontrol) has helped with a lot of frustration regarding volume control and should be taken into consideration for a serious setup.

Also, mapping the keyboard with essential arranger functions makes me enjoy vArranger a lot more. In addition I always can attach my iPad and control vArranger from there via Duet, but I have found that this is only redundant and I hardly use it.

What I wanted to say is that you don't need a touchscreen laptop. You always could use Duet and an iPad to replicate this function or just use a good controller, perhaps an additional midi fader, and a well mapped laptop/PC keyboard for most fun.

That being said, I would not consider anything less than the equivalent power of an i5 with at least 8GB and an SSD with sufficient storage space.

Would like to know from others who use the transpose feature, are you happy they way it works? I think transpose should have to ways of working: transpose immediately at the push of a button, or when a style is playing wait to Change until next chord is played. Right now, it changes always immediately. Would love to see the other option implemented.

He needs JackAudio and LoopBe perhaps. Works for me. vArranger & Cantabile,  all working together without problems.

Anyone using any extra libraries? Which ones? What are your results?

I personally could not wrap my head around TouchOSC and purchased a data cable for my iPad. Together with the app Duet I can use my iPad in extended screen mode with vArranger. It behaves as if vArranger ran natively on the iPad. Highly recommended.

True, a VST should always be top notch, but for the semi-professional or musician at home, soundfonts are a great starting point.

If you want to save the money for the VST, I have a professionally sampled Roland  SC sound font that I use with VArranger. I downloaded it somewhere I don´t remember and have been using it since with VArranger without any major problems. I like it, and the BK-7m rhythms really sound great with it. It is very easy on RAM and system requirements. It complements the built in synth very nicely. Actually, it replaces it for the most part but for some voices.

Bonjour Dan,

Please send me the latest beta that has FX2 and FX3 plugins work with vArranger synth. Merci.

Have been toying around with compifont sf2 font. It's free, it's around 1GB, and it makes an instant and vast difference how vArranger will sound. It has got Yamaha and Steinberg piano samples, and all other sounds and drumkits, are very good. To me it made sound vArranger 100% better across the board with styles from all the different brands. It will certainly delay my decision to buy soundfonts for vArranger, if at all.

While it does not replace all built-in sounds, the majority are covered and seem to work well with the few ones that are left from vSynth's soundfont.

It is a no-nonsense download of two or one (your choice) non-compressed files.


https://musescore.org/en/node/94941


If you scroll to the end, there are links to the updated soundfont files.

V 1.18 sounds interesting then!!!

Any ETA available yet?

Thanks to all of you for the insight.

I agree that Bandstand ain't the best module out there. It's quite old and perhaps won't work well with non GM compliant styles. Have to look into Halion Sonic then at some point. Also, I do own a copy of Ignite. Not sure if that will work as a midi player device.

The problem with Ketron: I could purchase an SD2, but the SD-1000 isn't widely available around here. So, it ain't a solution right off the bat.

I do have access to a BK 7m though. The question is: will other than Roland styles play well on it for the most part right out of the box? I am not so much into tweaking styles beyond some simple modifications.

Furthermore, since the BK 7m is an arranger module, I am not clear yet what vArranger could do with it beyond playing other styles?

Thanks for the reply. I've had a read in the forums and I watched some videos on youtube.

It seems that a software based GM module is an alternative to start slowly before upgrading to Ketron or any other module.

I still have a copy of Bandstand. It comes with GM compability and is nothing else than a Midi player with quality samples. I assume it would work. Does vArranger use any other instruments than the standard 128 ones for the accompaniment?

How does the built in software synth compare? Quality sounds? Or similar to Microsoft/Yamaha Wave table implementation?

Thanks a lot.

Hello,

VArranger seems to be something I have been wanting for many years wihout knowing it does exist. Now, could other sound modules work with vArranger without major problems or modifications? I am thinking especially about Roland BK 7m or SD-50.

Can vArranger velocity switch instruments?

Thanks a lot.