vArranger Forums

Hi Dan,

Somewhere in this thread I read that there has been a version released later than v1.19.01, which is the version I currently own. Is that correct?

Regarding the "Subscription", if you recall I was one of your original customers (if not the very first one) who mentioned not minding having to pay a reasonable fee for major new features. One such feature for me was (has always been) a Style Maker, which I think has been on your to-do list for a very very long time. As much as I appreciate the time you've spent on developing the VST capability and sound modules, I still view VArranger as an excellent auto-accompaniment software and not a VST host. For that I could use a free dedicate software like Cantabile Lite or even my own DAW. Needing a simple way to create robust auto-accompaniment and giving up on waiting for it to get implemented in VArranger, I ended up adding a robust auto-accompaniment feature in my own DAW using a LUA VST plugin. While that's serving my needs, I still enjoy using VArranger from time to time and want to see it improved. However, with all due respect, I am somewhat reluctant to commit to a subscription when I, as a paying customer, have zero say in what features get implemented and have to fully rely on the developer to make that decision for me. I think that given my long wait for a single feature, that may not be too unreasonable. Respect. 

Dan, please add me to the list as well.

Thanks

[OK]

Thank you olivier71500. I tried it. I literally had to turn off my antivirus to be able to write the file that Dan had sent me to a USB drive (again). Of course I won't be able to leave my antivirus off indefinitely. I think the new version of the program contains a bit pattern that Microsoft antivirus mistakes as the bit pattern of the virus I mentioned. Maybe I'm missing something here, but if this is happening often, I think Dan sending the bit pattern (a sample of the program) to Microsoft could resolve the issue. I doubt if Microsoft would sell the code!

All of a sudden my VArranger2.exe version 1.18.06 was removed from my computer. Windows 10 thinks it carries the trojan: win32/Bitrep.A, which is nasty. Somehow windows didn't detect this before but it's detecting it now and it immediately removes the file wherever it is. I cannot get Windows to ignore the file even when I try to extend Microsoft's local virus database (force it to ignore the file). This happened in the middle of a band practice and created major problems for me. Can anyone help?

Dan, one way to fix this problem (once and for all) is for you to send a sample file to Microsoft and have them include it in their database. It wouldn't take long but it would save folks a lot of headache.

Thanks,
Ash

Thank you both for your comments.

Dan, I did try that option. While it helps, it doesn't totally prevent the issue because it still forces a guitar player to play the intended notes higher than the velocity threshold and that can impact the playing style.

agaton, I tried that as well (I also use Triple Play and can send individual strings on different midi channels).
With guitars, six strings improve the chances of correctly recognizing a chord.
 
Example:  "A min" can produce the notes:

S1/T1/A
S2/T2/E
S3/T1/A
S4/T3/C
S5/T4/E
S6/T5/A

Where Sn stands for the string# and Tn stands for string hit point in time in milliseconds (because it's impossible to hit all the strings exactly at the same time).

If I miss hitting the 6th string, which may happen as you're playing lead and chord simultaneously (totally different animal than a keyboard), then the chord recognizer will have S4/T3/C and S5/T4/E only and the chord will not be recognized correctly (missed altogether).
Also with chords like Am6, you're totally out of luck.

Anyhow, I think I found a way to implement this in BOME. My problem was timing. I fired all the chord notes (on and off) simultaneously and VArranger would not recognize them because it needed time to process each note. I put some timing in between the individual notes (5ms) and VArranger recognized the notes/chords correctly.

Again, thanks for your comments.       

Agaton, my problem is not related to Keith McMillen. I can use that pedal fine without any issues (kind of like the left hand of a right-handed keyboard player). However, as a guitar player, I don't want to commit to sitting down on a chair and operating a foot pedal as I'm playing my guitar. I want the arranger software to pick the right chords for me as I am playing my guitar naturally (without even thinking about the chords).

Chords can recognized through 3 mechanisms
1- the chords I play on my guitar
2-my arpeggiation
3-the scale I am playing in(notes in a sequence-similar to arpeggiation).

That's not hard to do with todays fast computers. All that has to be done is, collect all currently active (notes on that have not received note offs) in a buffer and look at them at regular time intervals (maybe every 100 milliseconds). Then if a valid chord is recognized, send it out. If chord is not recognized (e.g. c, c#, d, d#), then ignore it, clear the buffer and restart the process. VArranger is already doing the chord recognition bit. So for me to do this is some other soft, which I can do as a programmer, would be to reinvent the wheel and also connecting two pieces of software instead of one, would make the entire process more error prone.       

I've already been able to create a somewhat useful filter using a software tool called BOME MIDI Translator. There are lots of other solutions like MAX/MSP and REAKTOR as well. Of course one can always use a regular programming language. But I think the easiest way would be to implement it in VArranger. The software already does chord recognition. So adding routines to accept/ignore certain chords, doesn't seem to be a gigantic task. It may not be as useful to keyboard player as it would be to guitar players. With midi guitars, extra noise (moving between frets) can always trigger unwanted notes and if you decrease pickup sensitivity, then you have to press the notes really hard, which impacts your playing style. As I'm not getting any feedback from Dan, I'll just perfect my own tool. Guitar player dudes out there (which maybe just me) let me know if you need what I've developed and I'll send it to you for free.

Dan,

As you may recall, I am a guitar player (not a keyboardist). I use a Keith McMillen 12 Step foot pedal to send chords to VArranger. However, that forces me to sit down and impacts my mobility as a guitar player. An easier way would be to have VArranger listen to my midi guitar and pick the right chords (ignore leads - or less than 3 active notes). It currently does that well. Single figure chords would have complicated things, which VArranger doesn't do, so that's good. The problem is the accidental unwanted chord change, which happens a lot on guitar. One thing that would solve the problem would be to have a database of valid chord (all chords that VArranger recognizes) and allowing the user to check off the valid ones for a chord progression. That way, I can tell VArranger which chords to listen to and which ones to ignore. Is that possible?

sorry typo...please note that my email was changed.

Hi Dan,

I also sent you an email...please not that my email was changed.

Hi Dan,

Could you please send me the latest version of VArranger2.  I'm not sure what the latest version is. But I thought someone on the forum mentioned v.1.18.2?? Mine says v.1.18.01.

Thanks

Sorry bluebeat, I did misunderstand. 10-40 Euros sounds reasonable.

By the way, if a Style Creator is added, the Total Cost of the VA2 drops drastically. Total Cost = 350 + 0 (this cost eliminated) + 380 + 200 = 930. This would put VA2 on a completive price point with PK-7M.

While I initially suggested compensating Dan for the development, which I still do, I believe that 100 Euros is a bit too steep. First off, I like DjTony1981's Total Cost calculation. But I'd like to make a minor change to it (by the way, I rounded the numbers for simplicity). 

Total Cost = (VA2 = 350 Euros) + (Style Works = 250 Euros) + (KETRON SD1000 = 380 Euros) + (Usage%  * Computer Cost = Euros)   -------- Wow I paid a lot more for my SD1000 

One might say that adding the cost of a computer to VA2 would not be fair. Nonetheless, VA2 would not run without a computer so some percentage of the cost of computer would get added to the cost of VA2. I have a dedicate music computer (I think most of you do as well). So for me the percentage would be around (20% for VA2) and (80% for Cubase and other related software). For me that translates to around 200 Euros.  Also, in my case the "Style Works" component gets switched with "Cubase and StyleMagic and a couple of other tools I use for style making", which comes up to about the same.

Anyhow, in my case the Total Cost comes to: 350 + 250 + 380 + 200 = 1180. Adding another 100 Euros would put the total cost substantially over the cost of a similar product (like PK-7M).

All that said, I like the product and want to support it. I am willing to support Dan's Style Creator efforts with 30-40 Euros. I also would support future major updates (not bug fixes, which most companies deliver for free) with as much as 30 Euros for annual major feature releases (or half that for semi-annual releases). I also think that the decision of what goes into a major feature release could be voted on by the user/customer community.

What I had in mind was even simpler than that.
Directly record midi into a VA-style section and when done with all the sections save them as a single VA-style.

I am glad that you're alive and well

Simple style creation is what I was hoping for anyway. As I mentioned in previous posts, there are already tools out there for creating keyboard-specific styles and I don't view VA2 as providing such functionality.

When I come to VA2 I just need to be able to put a simple VA2-native style together "on-the-fly". But right now "on-the-fly" means jumping to multiple pieces of software

Thanks Dan.

Looks like Dan welcomed a new member yesterday. He may want to chime in and shine some light on the future direction of VA2 as a product.

As I mentioned in my prior posts, I initially invested quite a bit of money in VA2 + StyleMagicYA + SD1000 + some other related hardware and software despite the fact that VA2 lacked the Style Creator feature because I saw Dan's post about how he was going to add that feature. While I was waiting, I played around with some temporary alternatives. 

A couple of those temporary alternatives:
1) Currently you can switch between 20 arrangements in Cubase using an external device. This is equivalent to changing style sections in VA2. The problem is the chord recognition piece since arrangement parts in Cubase are static. There are several ways to get around that. One way is to use a VST plugin called Nora. However, since I use Kontakt a lot, I decided to create a Kontakt script that does chord recognition for me.             

2) Reaper is a fully matured, stable $60 DAW that incorporates scripting. In my case, it would not be hard to convert my Kontakt chord recognition script to LUA, which is one of the three scripting platforms in Reaper.

So my objective when I resurrected this thread was not to stir up a heated discussion. I only wanted to find out if VA2 has reached the end of its development lifecycle since the software has been relatively stagnant for some time now. I'll be totally OK if it has. I just won't hold my breath for that feature to get implemented  

Besides, with most businesses the seller works hard on retaining existing customers because of the financial incentives involved (the money you pay for upgrades). What's the financial incentive here, after the initial purchase?

I understand your point Igor and as seen in my last post I was anticipating that some folk would not like my proposition. I also understand your point about fixes taking precedence over new features. However, in light of you and I getting neither (major fixes nor updates), it is logical to conclude that the model is not working. So we can continue on the perpetual path of being unhappy about getting neither or think of a model that would benefit us all (including you, me and Dan). Obviously the current model needs rethinking.

Dan,

It would be really nice if one could create a quick style in VA without having to jump thru hoops in various pieces of external software. I believe you may already have some of the basic components needed to put such feature together. I know that this was one of your to-do items in 2012 (as shown in this thread) and that was one of the main reasons I chose VA over BK-7M (that does offer style creation) several years back.

Being a professional IT person, I have always wondered how the "pay one time and get lifetime updates" business model is sustainable because it eliminates the incentive for the developer to deliver major updates. Major update in this case would be things like style creator, 64-bit, looper, sampler, audio pitch shifter, etc. However, when it comes to VA, I don't expect the features I mentioned because there are a lot of companies out there that specialize in such products. However, style creation is a different matter. VA as a sophisticated auto-accompaniment software lacks the most elementary feature offered by most arranger keyboards over the price of $400. I know that some of your customers may not like the suggestion I am about to make because they also purchased the software under the assumption of "free updates for life". However, I am willing to pay a reasonable fee for your efforts because I understand that there's effort involved. Also, I don't mind if you market it as a separate product, similar to your soundfonts, so long as the price is reasonable for an add-on feature. I think if it's priced too high it'd put the combined price of VA and Style Creator on par with BK-7M. However, BK-7M comes with its own hardware. In VA's case that would equate to VA + Style Creator + Computer + Audio Interface (or a midi sound module such as the SD1000).         

While I am thankful for the features you've added to VA, like VST, I still view VA as a sophisticated auto-accompaniment and not a VST host or a DAW. However, having to do a lot of extra work just to create a simple on-the-go midi-based style, has deterred me from using VA to its potential.

Thanks

Hi Dan. Could you please send me the latest version. Not sure what version is the latest. The one I have is VArranger2-1.17.99

Thx

Dan, could you please send me the latest version of the software please.

Got it.

Thanks,
Ash

Dan, please send me the latest release.

It seems from the discussions that the latest release is higher than my 1.17.93.

A few questions, do you inform customers directly via email when you release a new version? If so, is there a list you send these email to that I can add myself to? Or do they check with you directly on a regular basis? Or is there a timing pattern to these releases that I am unaware of, like once a quarter or so? It seems like I am always finding out about these releases if someone mentions it in a discussion thread.     

Thanks, Ash

Dan, after reading lakere's comments, it seems like I don't have the current version. Could you please send me v1.17.97 please.
You have my email.

Thanks,
Ash

Dan, I own a license of the Varranger. I regularly check this forum for the latest news on Varranger. As I have said several time before, I like the software and I know how much time it takes to create a quality product like this. I am an IT Manager and have been in the software development business for large corporations for a very long time. My suggestion is to have the current version of the Software (Major and Minor release numbers as well as additional relevant information) clearly posted on the main product page (e.g. Current Version 1.17.93 with 64bit VST support). This will prevent folks from having to constantly read various long threads to figure out if they have the latest release or not. You may also want to put a message like "No trial versions available" on the main product page to prevent various ask from folks who may be legitimately interested in the software but may be reluctant to invest in a software based on screen images. That could potentially reduce the time you spend on responding to these trial version requests and your customers won't have to follow non-essential Varranger-related news ... Just  my two cents...Thanks              

Hi Dan.

I have version v1.17.93 of the software. In this thread you mention that the latest version is v1.17.97. I haven't had a chance to use the software in a while. Today when I logged in I got a message saying "Please download the latest version of the Varranger Software Synthesizer". Could you please email me the latest version?

Also, I am not a beta tester. When is v1.18 scheduled to be publicly released?

p.s. I can do a bit of beta testing if it's not too late yet.

Thanks,

-Ash

Will do! Thanks.

Thanks for your quick reply Dan.

I tried that. The YAMAHA styles sound wrong when played on the SD1000 (especially if you're not in the GM mode). StyleMagic YA inserts header SYSEX and other setup messages (File Format, program# and EFX per each accompaniment channel, GM/XG state, etc.), which are correct for a YAMAHA (XG) keyboard but have different counterparts on the Ketron side. In facts, that's the only reason (header information) I use StyleMagic YA. I create the sections in Cubase and use StyleMagic YA to add the header information. The styles sound as intended on my YAMAHA keyboard but sound terrible on the SD1000. Can I reassign the sounds in VArranger (per channel) and save them locally (in other words overwrite the header information via VArranger)?
Thanks.

Dan, I need to create some Ketron styles to use on my SD1000 (using Varranger). What would be the best way to do that? I have StyleMagic YA. But that only works with Yamaha. I have Cubase so I can easily create the styles if I have the correct setup. Do you have any documentation on the structure of a Ketron Style? I looked around on the site and didn't find anything. There is a software called Style Works XT. But I only need to create a small number of styles (5-6) and for that purpose, that software is way too expensive. That's basically why I asked a while back if Varranger was going to have a simple style creator, which would make the task of occasional style making much easier for me. For now, Cubase would do if I know the structure of a Ketron style. By the way, as an IT Manager I totally understand the time and effort needed to create and sustain a quality software such as the Varranger. Thank you for all your hard work and happy holidays.     

Dan, is this feature still on your to-do list?

Dan,

The version of the software that I currently have is V1.17.89. Could you please send me the latest version --- I have Windows 7 64bit.

Thanks,
Ash

Sure .... here are a few of tracks....not with VArranger2 but they show my style nonetheless.
These tracks are mostly done with guitar and midi guitar.

https://soundcloud.com/nazarizadeh/paradise
https://soundcloud.com/nazarizadeh/dance-of-the-firefly
https://soundcloud.com/nazarizadeh/shades-of-sands
https://soundcloud.com/nazarizadeh/reminiscence-of-a-dream

Dan, turns out I can zone the note range in a style. So now I have set the higher zone as static for the articulation and the lower zone as trans for the  chords. It's working great now. Thank you for your help! 

I found it!

Thanks Dan!

Dan, the picture that you've attached, is it from StyleMagic YA 2.2.0? I can't find a CASM Editor!

I play the nylon guitar. I use VArraner2 to play backup as I play solo guitar. My gear consists of Varranger2, Asus EP121 Windows 7 touch tablet, Keith McMillen 12 step midi pedal, Kontakt 5 , Ilya Efimov Nylon Strum (Kontakt VST),  Brio Ensemble Percussion (Kontakt VST) and Scarbee Pre-Bass (Kontakt VST). So my entire small band consists of my own nylon guitar (lead), Ilya Efimov Nylon (Guitar Chord), bass and percussion.

I use Cubase 8 to create midi (style) files with 4 tracks only. Track1 is Guitar Articulation on Channel 9, Track2 is Guitar Chord on channel 12  (well in reality it is an empty track that channel 9 articulation are applied to in VArranger2 - explained below), Track3 is percussion on channel 10 and track4 is bass on channel 11. Once I create the midi (style) file, I run the file thru StyleMagic YA and turn it into a Yamaha Style. The style sounds great playing via VArranger2, especially now that Varranger2 can run 64 bit VST. I use channel 9 for guitar articulation because that channel doesn't get affected by my chord changes. Articulations (up stroke, down stroke, up mute stroke, down mute stroke, up strum, down strum etc.) work really great.

In VArranger2 I use two separate instances of Kontakt. One instance I set to Omni. This instance holds only one Ilya Efimov Nylon Strum instrument. In VArranger2 I send channels 9 and 12 to this instance of Kontakt. So chords are played correctly (via channel 12) and articulations are applied correctly (unchanged) via channel 9 and since the instrument listens to Omni, both channels (chords and articulation) are merged and the guitar sound turns out very realistic, almost indistinguishable from a real nylon guitar. I use the second instance of Kontakt for Percussion (listening on channel 10) and Bass (listening on channel 12).

All this works really great with the exception of one big problem. Channel 9 is interpreted as a percussion track meaning that although the articulation notes stay static (which is great), the track keeps playing even if I am not playing a chord with my foot pedal (last chord keeps playing). In other words, it stays in a constant state of HOLD (no matter what state the HOLD button is in - off or on). Can this be remedied? What suggestions do ya'll  have? I would really appreciate your suggestions if you've already solved a problem similar to this. Thanks!

Hi Dan!

Could you please send me a copy of the new 64-bit version as well.  Thanks!

Ash

My situation is a bit different. My unit worked great with the USB Power for 2 weeks. Then it started working intermittently for about 1 week and then it went out completely. I think if it were USB power related, it would not have worked at all from the beginning. I use an I5 Asus EP121 table and an Asus I5 Laptop. I tried the unit with both and neither worked (after it went out). It now works fine with the adaptor. I am ok with using the adaptor. But the reason I bought this unit at a higher price was the USB power feature, which was all over Ketron's advertising (at that time anyway). The unit is small, it sounds great and no heavy power adaptor needed, very convenient and worth the extra price. But if I knew I had to use the adaptor, I may have considered the lower model at half the price. In any case the unit sounds great.    

I bought an SD1000 module last year. The USB power worked for 2 weeks and then went out. The unit worked with the adaptor only. When I got in touch with Ketron, they gave me the name of a guys that had started a new Ketron Service Center in the US. But when I talked to the guy he wanted me to send him the unit so that he could send it to Italy for repairs. So I decided to just rough it out with adaptor. I am very impressed with the sound of the unit (which is not cheap) but the workmanship could be a bit better. 