vArranger Forums

Thanks, that does help. I'll be playing more pop/soul stuff but it's a clear proof of concept. Did you have to do a lot of instrument editing or style adapting to get this kind of result?

I would also prefer a software solution, I'm just not sure I can spend all that time setting up everything. I tried again the other day and seemed to get better results with NI Session Drummer (instead of Addictive Drums) and Scarbee Jay Bass instead of a Sonar offering. This was using OMB though. Still, it seemed to vary a lot between styles so that means a lot of work setting up, and I'm not sure how I'd go about switching drumkits or snares between styles. Is this possible using vArranger using the internal VST host?

I found a second-hand SD2 for 150, is that a good idea?

I think I will start with those SD2 soundfonts that were mentioned (since you have already invested some time in the compatibility) and see where I go from there. Next month I have more time and I'll get back to you on your offer if that's alright.

Quote from: Dan on August 17, 2014, 10:16:12 PM
For the styles, it is doing the job pretty well. For right hand sounds, some are OK, some are bad. Especially piano sounds.

That sounds great then, since I will be using my Kronos for my "playing hand" and that piano is a really well done 4GB monster

This seems to hit on my question from the other thread as well. Would you think this is a decent replacement for an SD2?

I think the Kronos GM sounds are just particularly low quality, it's not a priority. The single sounds are great but rely in part on the excellent FX engine and setting that up over midi would require a ton of SysEx. It's just not really made with this idea in mind. I've heard the SD2 and SD1000 and they sound pretty decent to me, especially as a starting point that I could expand upon with VSTs. I'm just unsure how much editing has gone into the demos I've seen and how good it sounds out of the box just by hooking it up to vArranger.

Pretty bad using the Kronos GM soundset. Slightly better when I substitute regular Kronos sounds but to make the most of it I'd need the IFX/MFX engine and it's impossible to use single program changes per channel yet set up the 12 insert FX and all the routing and the multi FX and all that. Plus it'd be a lot of work. It sounds potentially good when using VSTs but that again requires a lot of work because something like Addictive Drums, even in "GM mode" doesn't follow the GM mapping all the way across the keyboard (so I get weird extra sounds or miss part if the pattern), plus a funky kit is not the same as a rock kit. Also, the bass part needs transposition quite often, and many more issues besides. I want a better sounding solution that gives me a good basic sound for many directly usable styles. Like a Tyros or PA3X or Audya would. Of course it's nice to improve here and there over time but I wouldn't want to be caught with what I have now.

Some, yes
But much of the reason to get an vArranger and not use custom backing tracks or Ableton or even OMB11 for me is to get a lot of good sounding styles without too much time investment in adaptation per track.

Thank you, I was surprised and confused by BJayG's post.

Am I understanding correctly that you can't adjust the mix per song? What happens when you use a different drumkit that is much softer?

I think the Kronos GM sounds are terrible
And honestly I would even replace some of the "higher quality" regular sounds like the drumkits with something like Addictive Drums. I'm really hoping it gets a lot better than that, but perhaps you're right and I should use it as a starting point. I'm just worried there will be too much work involved into getting an acceptible sound. Really I mostly want bass and drums parts (or even just drum parts!) since I don't have to play lead parts (I'll be with a singer) and would like maximum convincingness, sound-wise.

That sounds quite reasonable, Dan, and I will likely take you up on that when things calm down a bit next month so I have some time to invest and try it out. I think the main thing I'm concerned about is if it can sound good enough easily enough. I read a lot about the Ketron SD2 here, and a little about the newer SD1000. I have a lot of software and a very capable computer. I am comfortable enough around VSTs and ASIO drivers to install a new sound engine and configure the routing and stuff. What I would prefer NOT to do is having to dig through every single style and reassign all instruments and edit them to get an acceptable sound. If this means I'd have to get an SD2 or SD1000 so be it, although I would obviously rather not add another 400 bucks to the cost. Knowing this, what would you recommend? Is it worth checking out this sound font collection? If you're not sure, do you know of anyone who I could talk to who is doing this?

Last question, I have indeed seen a lot of styles on the forum. What's unclear to me is if these are ripped from the original keyboards or the internet by users or if they have been optimized by you and if so, for which sound module (SD2, I suppose). In other words, is this a good basis to start with, like a Tyros or PA3X or Audya would be, or is this a ragtag user collection like I can find on the web elsewhere. This is sadly not clear from the website info (I would expect something like "ready to go with 500 top quality styles included already optimized for this and this sound module, thousands more available through our forums, shared by users").

Does this mean one could get out-of-the-box compatibility with vArranger's "SD2" mode and all the styles?

Ok. I haven't run across any bugs in OMB11 yet. I don't really know what you mean with vArranger being ergonomic and OMB not. Can you give examples of common tasks related to live playing that are easier on vArranger? I seem to be able to select styles, play intros, fills, variations and adjust the volumes pretty easily on OMB.

I'm really not trying to market OMB by the way, but I have a really hard time figuring out why vArranger is better. Most people just say it's "better" and "worth the money".

Thank you, but can you explain why? Why is vArranger so much better live? What makes it unique?

Thanks all for your replies, and you for your efforts, Dan. I have more questions, but also some suggestions as to how to write the features page and explain different parts of the software. If you do not think me too presumptuous, I will get back to you with an outline/idea.

The main things I am wondering about right now are;
1. Where do I get styles? Are they included? Are they already optimized for the suggested sound modules? Or do I have to download everything from random websites and work from scratch?
2. Can I edit styles at all?
3. Is a 64-bit version of vArranger available or being planned? Especially important since I have Komplete 9 Ultimate, Addictive Drums, Trillian and a whole bunch of other stuff to use if I'd go the VST route.
4. More generally, why would I buy this software over something like One Man Band? What does it do that OMB doesn't and why is that important?

My main issue so far with OMB has been that I need to set up and adapt each style and each sound from scratch. I can make it play my VST collection quite easily using any host but it's a lot of work getting a realistic and good sound instead of a bunch of robots beating away at real instruments. If I'd buy an Audya or a Tyros or PA3X I'm basically paying for thoroughly optimized presets/styles. So is there a way to get vArranger, use one of those Ketron modules, and get going right of the bat with a decent collection of styles? If so, which module will give me the best sound? I don't need any lead sounds at all as I'll always have my Kronos with me and will always be playing actual keyboard-based sounds. I just need a quick-workflow good sounding solution with good accompaniments, that costs less than an Audya/Tyros/PA3X.

EDIT:
Sorry for moving this even more off topic. It seemed relevant to the earlier discussion, but now it has turned more towards my questions. I can start a new topic if you like.

For what it's worth, with the current fragmented info/marketing candy and no demo, I would probably buy vArranger right away if it were 150 euro on the chance that it would be a good investment. Based on recommendations and what I have been able to find on the site, the forum and YouTube. If I were completely convinced that this would be the ultimate solution to my arranger needs and I could try it out, I would shell out the 350 too. All my other above-300-bucks software comes with way more information and video material, and virtually all of them have demo versions (e.g. I own Sonar X3 Producer, Melodyne Editor, Ableton Live 9 Suite, NI Komplete 9 Ultimate, Waves Horizon Bundle, Fabfilter Total Bundle, etc etc).

Thank you for your vote of confidence. But I really don't know what I'd be getting and 349 is too much just to try something.

I know this is an old discussion, but I would like to chime in.

I'm a full-time musician from the Netherlands, I do mostly live band work, some studio jobs and I have a small job at a music school. I have never done much with arrangers and can't justify the cost of an Audya, Tyros or PA3X for how often I'd use it. Since I almost always play with band, I use my Korg Kronos among others, and in the studio I use my Moogs, Rhodes and a lot of VSTs. I'm only saying this to explain I know what quality is and I'm used to paying for it.

I am currently interested in adding Arranger capabilities to my setup. I've used OMB10 with my Kronos but the results were disappointing, sound-wise, and what styles I could find needed a LOT of editing. I heard good things about vArranger and so I came here to check it out. The price is hefty compared to OMB10 for instance, but I've paid at least ten times as much on DAW software and plugins over the last few years, let alone on hardware.

What frustrates me is not the price itself but the fact that there is almost NO information on the official site. Nothing that tells me the main features of the program, how to use it, or even the price until I click "buy" or manually dig through the forums. For people who are interested in this software, the home of it, this website, is almost useless. There is no demo, that means we're left with a lot of questions. The misnamed "screenshots" page gives a few hints. "Midi sync", what does that mean? Are you sending clock, MTC, MMC, what? In both directions or one? There is a vArranger software synthesizer, are there any audio demos, links to YouTube vids. 16 VST instruments, I'm assuming they're not included, but can I reconfigure them for each style or are they 16 fixed instruments? How many styles do I actually get? Can I edit them? How much? Can I make a setlist and put styles or song setups in order? Or can I make favorites? Can vArranger respond to program changes to select a certain style?

I don't expect you to answer all these questions right now, and they are only a selection of what is still unclear to me, but I think your sales would be helped a lot by a more informative and well written website, and (hopefully) some kind of restricted or time-limited demo.