Author Topic: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor  (Read 3925 times)

Offline jbg31792

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Bon Jour,

Has anybody tried using the vARRANGER2 with the TRIPLE PLAY?

I'm getting the same error message on the vARRANGER2 when using either the MidJay Plus or the SD2:
12 ERROR: MIDI INOPEN=7: THE SYSTEM IS UNABLE TO ALLOCATE OR LOCK MEMORY.

This is how I have connected the TRIPLE PLAY, SD2, and the Cakewalk USB Midi interface:

USB Midi Interface UM-2G MIDI 1 OUT To MIDI IN SD2

In OPTIONS vARRANGER2:

vARRANGER2 MIDI IN (shows) FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY
vARRANGER2 MIDI OUT (shows) 1 UM-2G

When I push the start button to play a pattern on vARRANGER2, the blue light is blinking on the SD2 and the data light on the UM-2G MIDI 1 IN is blinking. But when I strum a chord on the guitar it doesn't trigger the white data light in the upper left hand corner of the vARRANGER2, so the guitar chords can't control the vARRANGER2.

When I play the guitar with the TRIPLE PLAY it shows on the main page of the software that MIDI data is being transmitted by the guitar and wirelessly received by the TRIPLE PLAY software.

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 06:08:46 AM »
First of all, congratulation to get the triple play after so many time waiting for it.

This message says most of time that the triple play is already in use by another application and can't be used by vArranger in the same time.

Can you try it in another program than vArranger, and tell me if it is working

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 11:04:35 PM »
Hey Dan,

Yes the TRIPLE PLAY can be used as a host or a plug in.

When I first used it with the VARRANGER2, connecting as I have already mentioned, the TRIPLE PLAY was recognizing all of my chord changes on the vARRANGER2. Also, it was recognizing all of the Ketron voices. So I was wirelessly MIDI controlling the chord styles of the the vARRANGER2 and playing all of the sounds/voices of the SD2 OR MIDJAY PLUS. I was not using an audio interface at all, just the Cakewalk USB MIDI INTERFACE UM-2G. I could seamlessly switch between the TRIPLE PLAY AND vARRANGER2, and could minimize one or the other or both without any interruption of me wirelessly controlling the MIDI sounds and styles of vARRANGER2

"THEN" when I was trying to "EXPERIMENT", to access all of the bundled software that's included with TRIPLE PLAY: NI-KONTACT ELEMENTS/GUITAR RIG LE, NOTATION MUSIC (PROGRESSION), IK SAMPLE TANK 2XT (AMPLITUDE CUSTOM SHOP), PRESONUS- STUDIO ONE ARTIST TRIPLE PLAY EDITION, I  somehow disabled the MIDI connection I had with the vARRANGER2; Plus, I still don't know how to access the PRESETS AND SOUNDS of the bundled software. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John

 

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 07:05:33 AM »
Cool so the Triple play is really working good to play vArranger and transform your guitar in a wireless midi guitar.

Most of midi drivers are not multiclients, and can work with only one application at a time, so close all your VST hosts and software who use the Triple play midi in, and then run vArranger.

Offline 4partmusic

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Dan, Triple Play can be set to send all six strings on one midi channel or each individual string on a separate channel. Would that make any difference in how Varranger would respond?

Terry

Offline Dan

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You have to set the triple play to send the all six strings in the midi channel 1.
Do you have the triple play too?

Offline 4partmusic

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Just got it as guitar is my main instrument.  I have not had a lot of time to play with it but can say the tracking is the best I have seen out of a Midi guitar. I think it has a lot of potential with Varranger if I can get it working.  That is why I was trying Varranger on my laptop (64 bit) to get a more portable set up.  I have not gotten far but you basically have two ways to use it.  1. Is you can run it through the FTP software and run that software as a plug-in. Their software gives you more control over what instrument is used on each string and allows you to set sensitivity for each string you play. You can save it as a patch and that is downloaded into the hardware so it remembers the setting.  From what I have read from others using it you have to adjust the settings for various instruments.  You don't want settings for an acoustic guitar the same as a piano because they are different instruments.  2. You can use it as more of a midi controller to control virtual instruments.  I was able to get it to work with Garage Band on my iPad as well. 

I have way too many toys and not enough time to enjoy!!

Terry

Offline Dan

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It is a very cool toy.
Not yet released in France but will be at 2 time the US price !

Offline 4partmusic

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I hooked the Triple Play up to Varranger last night.  Still learning things.  It recognized the TP as a midi input device so that was relatively simple.  I am still working on how to best set the split point since it is not like a piano or keyboard.  I have also learned I have to play pretty straight chords without a lot of true strumming or it picks up and interprets the chords wrong.  I will play with it some more and see what if I can get comfortable with it.  Any ideas on how I might set Varranger up to better process chords would be appreciated.  It could be I need to change the pitch bend control feature (if I can figure that out) so that it does slide into notes. 

Terry

Offline 4partmusic

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Other simple things I have learned.

When you try to run the TP  Software along with Varranger it does seem to have the multi-client problem talked about earlier in the thread.  Works fine as a normal controller however.

Take the time to tune your guitar as accurately as possible.  I used the Triple Play software tuner and then shut it down and opened Varranger.  Since guitar strings are not as exact as a keyboard this is important.

I am an acoustic player normally and have had a bad habit of pressing on the guitar frets pretty hard.  On the electric guitar this causes the strings to go slightly out of tune confusing Varranger.  I am learning to press much lighter when I play the chords. 

I believe Varranger will help me with tightening my rhythm as it is very important to make chord changes accurately and on the beat.   I am having a great time with this new device and Varranger together.  I have played more here at home than I have in a long time just because it is so much fun. I think anyone that plays guitar and wants a background accompaniment that will follow them  will find this combination to work very well. 

I do need a foot pedal though.  Does the Behringer foot pedal work pretty well?

Terry

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 09:21:52 PM »
Hi Terry,

My setup is the Triple Play (Carvin guitar), vArranger2, MidJay Plus (or SD2) haven't made up my mind which one sounds the best with the vArranger2, and the RJM Mastermind GT midi pedal controller (haven't received it yet as it's still in production. The developer is building in Templates for both the Triple Play, and vArranger2.)

I'm using the Cakewalk USB UM-2G for the USB midi interface,
the Guitar Rig Mobile audio interface,
Mac Book Pro 13" 10.6.8 Snow Leopard/Boot Camp partitioned w/Win7

I only have 2 USB ports on the Mac so haven't been able to run the Guitar Rig audio interface, USB midi interface and the Fishman Triple Play dongle all at the same time. I've ordered a 7 port powered USB Hub, which should be here Tuesday. Then I will try and access the Sample Tank through the Triple Play.

Right now, I can control the chord changes on the vArranger2's STYLES, and play the vArranger's sounds, I also have to be careful when getting the vArranger2 to follow my chord changes. I wonder if it will be faster and easier to track my chords when I'm playing a guitar patch or sound through Sample Tank instead of using the sounds of the vArranger2?

This is how I'm set up now (before using the audio out for the Triple Play Sample Tank, etc.)

MIDJAY main out LEFT to Bose mixer
MIDJAY Plus midi IN to midi OUT 1 (um-2g)

vArranger2 midi OUT 1(UM-2G)
vArranger2 midi IN FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY

With the Guitar Rig Mobile AUDIO INTERFACE OUT to IN on Bose mixer
               GUITAR OUT to IN AUDIO INTERFACE (if I choose to plug in a cable from my guitar and sync that sound with FTP Sample Tank patch)               

I've downloaded the free ASIO4ALL.2.10.english.exe that was recommended by Derek from tech support Fishman, who also is a guitarist. Then under FTP preferences choose  ASIO

I would appreciate any advice you could give me on your recommendations for my set up; especially for the audio interface.

It is such a joy to play any chord change you can think of on the guitar, and hear the STYLE voices in the vArranger2 following along with that same guitar chord.       

Thanks,

John

Offline 4partmusic

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 09:42:31 PM »
John, 

You are way ahead of me.  I am keeping things simple to start out.  I am running the FTP into a USB on my laptop running Windows 7 Premium 64 bit.   I then run the USB cable to my SD4 and into a powered mixer.  Like you I can get the chord changes to occur for Styles in Varranger and can play instruments in Varranger.  I am taking this really slow as I get confused easily sometimes with all the ins and outs.  My next step is to run the out on my guitar into a TC Helicon Harmony processer.  This will allow me to punch in background vocals along with the Varranger styles.  After that I need to get a foot pedal so I can control everything without having to activate on the laptop or through my Korg miniature controller. 

I have a Roland VS-20 that I may be able to use to run my guitar into and process it with plug-ins but that will be awhile.  I personally think it may get harder once I add in the guitar whether driving a virtual instrument or effect or just going live to my amp. 

I will share as I learn. Unfortunately I am out of town most of this week so my play time will be cut way back.  :'(

Terry

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 07:18:07 AM »
Terry, for a guitar player, you must not use any split point.
On vArranger select the FULL KEYBOARD mode (top right of the screen.)
On this mode, vArranger will recognize a chord when you play 3 notes or more.
If you play a solo with only one notes or 2, it will note change the chord.

There is another new good feature for guitar players, it is the velocity threshold.
From the v1.17 news : http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php?topic=903.0
- go to OPTIONS / MASTER /CHORD RECOGNITION VELOCITY THRESHOLD : Ability to filter low velocity notes, to avoid undesired chord changes. This is especially useful for MIDI guitarists, because unwanted notes are easily sent by open strings touched.

For a pedal, if you have a Ketron FS6 or FS13 pedal board, We produce an adapter FS13TOUSB
http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php/topic,753.msg7221.html#msg7221

Offline 4partmusic

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 01:58:41 AM »
Made the suggestions that Dan provided and it definitely helped.  I am going to have to play with the threshold to get it to the ultimate for my playing style.  Sometimes I don't get a chord change or get a totally different chord even with thresholds set higher.  It appears to be a combination of threshold setting and my playing.  I do a lot of pull offs and hammer on's.  Not necessarily good for directing the style.   I also have turned off the instruments I am playing live in Varranger at this time.  I just want to make sure I have a good solid track going.  Adding in midi instruments played by guitar will come in time. 

If I wanted to send chord changes to my TC Helicon Vocelive 2 at the same time what would be the best way to do this through Varranger? 

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2013, 07:25:08 AM »
Maybe use the MIDI OUT 2 of vArranger for the Voice Live 2.
And then right click on the RIGHT1 track, and send it to MIDI OUT 2.
The voice live will then receive your guitar notes playing on the midi channel 13


Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2013, 05:35:20 AM »
Hi Dan,

Thanks for the heads up on the newest 1.1 update on the Triple Play.

I'm still waiting on Ron, the developer of the Mastermind Midi foot controller to find a software program that will allow the vARRANGER2, TRIPLE PLAY, THE MASTERMIND GT, AND THE GT EDITOR SOFTWARE, to all work together  in WINDOWS7.

Ron kind of sums up what the problem is:

"MIDI Yoke will send MIDI data between two programs, but it won't send MIDI data from a MIDI port to more than one program. We'd need another program that receives data from the MIDI port and sends it to MIDI Yoke."
 
I'm including copies of some e mails between Ron and I.

Why is it that when I'm running the vArranger2, and the GT Editor is running at the same time, that the Mastermind Foot Pedal will not transmit midi cc to the vArranger, and I get the ERROR message on the vArranger screen below?

But when the Editor is not running, the Mastermind will transmit the midi CCs to the vArranger? Please explain.

Thanks.

John

 
The editor is trying to open a second MIDI connection, which causes the same problem as running Triple Play and vArranger at the same time.

I  can understand the editor is trying to open a second midi connection when using the vArranger and not being able to transmit the cc change
But please explain to me how the Mastermind can transmit the midi CCs perfectly to the vArranger when the Editor is not running.

 The GT doesn't need the editor to operate. As far as the PC is concerned, it's just another device connected to a MIDI port. With only one program running (vArranger), the GT communicates via MIDI to that program.


But what about the MIDI YOKE  software that Derek from Fishman recommended?

MIDI Yoke will send MIDI data between two programs, but it won't send MIDI data from a MIDI port to more than one program. We'd need another program that receives data from the MIDI port and sends it to MIDI Yoke. Also, MIDI Yoke isn't all that compatible with Windows 7 - the program was last updated in 2007.

The GT Editor is CONNECTED to the GT pedal, and now none of the GT mastermind vArranger's pedals function any more. And, no midi messages are being transmitted  by the GT and received in the Midi Monitor OF THE vArranger

But the guitar is transmitting midi data through the Triple Play Guitar Controller to the Dongle and is received on the Midi Monitor of the vArranger.

 In all of these screen scenes that I've sent you, the TRIPLE PLAY was never running. So there were not two midi software programs running at the same time, the Triple Play and the vArranger, which caused a conflict with the GT to stop transmitting midi data.

The GT stops transmitting midi data to the vArranger the moment the GT Mastermind Pedal is connected to the GT Editor. And this happens without the Triple Play being run.

So, it would appear that the problem could be with the GT EDITOR.

When the GT Editor is not running, the GT Mastermind runs the vArranger just fine. And it will run the TRIPLE PLAY by itself just fine without the Editor being connected. In fact when I run  the vArranger and then run the Triple Play, but don't connect the GT Editor. The GT Mastermind runs all of the functions of the vArranger and sometimes the Triple Play PRESETS 1-6, but will not control the Triple Play Hold switch.

I'm rambling here, sorry I'm just tired and discouraged.

Thanks,

The problem is that the editor itself is a MIDI program and breaks the one program per MIDI port rule.

I'm still looking for a solution. This limitation of Windows is pretty frustrating. I'm talking to the author of rtpMIDI, which is almost, but not quite, a solution for us.

Dan,

If you, or any member, can shed some light here it would be much appreciated.

Or, is there any vARRANGER members using a MIDI CONTROLLER PEDAL together with vARRANGER2, and the TRIPLE PLAY and able to control around 10 vARRANGER functions, and able to control the TRIPLE PLAY HOLD function 
with pedal control, and some guitar patch assignments with their midi pedal. Even though the Triple Play HOLD function is activated with only one pedal press of the midi controller, each Triple Play patch assignment allows that one pedal push of the midi controller pedal will control either the Triple Play HOLD, SUSTAIN, LOOP, depending upon which one you choose. Also, the patch assignments can be accessed through the Triple Play guitar controller's
button built into the controller. But sometimes it's quicker to use the midi pedal controller.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long e mail.

John
--

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2013, 09:33:36 AM »
Maybe this application? There is a free trial.

http://www.nerds.de/en/loopbe30.html

You have to disable the automatic feedback detection who is working bad with vArranger

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2013, 07:00:26 PM »
Hi Dan,

Ron said "Yes, I've seen that one as well. The problem with LoopBe, MIDI Yoke, etc. is that they connect one program to another, but what we need is to connect multiple programs to a single MIDI port.

I'm trying to see if it's possible to make the MMGT Editor act as a MIDI Thru to other programs. That might be the missing link we're looking for."

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2013, 07:19:50 AM »
From the webpage, I read this :

Basically LoopBe30 provides 30 independent "invisible cables" to connect MIDI outports of applications to any other application's MIDI inport.
You may connect up to 8 applications to every single inport and up to 8 application to every single outport, all sending and receiving at the same time. Every port provides the full 16 MIDI channels.

So maybe it's possible...

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2013, 02:09:05 AM »
Hi Dan,

Ron is saying: "I can see how you can use it to connect one program to another, but can't see how it could be used to connect a port directly to multiple apps."

Daniel Schmidt from LoopBeOne vaguely says: "Hi John

Will the LoopBe1, or LoopBe30 allow me to send midi data from one midi port to more than one midi programs at a time?

Yes, of course,
Simply try it with loopbe1 or the trial version of loopbe30

best regards
Daniel Schmitt
--
Nerds.de Audio & Midi Particles
Dipl. Inf. D.Schmitt
Koblenzer Str. 4
60327 Frankfurt
Germany
phone ++49-(0)177-3560342
fax   ++49-(0)69-3809774949
email: ds@nerds.de

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2013, 08:36:44 PM »
So just download and try the LoopBe30 demo

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2013, 04:51:47 AM »
Hi Dan,

I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place here. I have to rely on Ron to download the LoopBe1 or LoopBe30 to try and see if it will work with the GT Editor software, because I think that it's over my head to try it on my own.

I will forward your e mail to Ron and hopefully he'll be persuaded to try the LoopBe1 software.

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2013, 07:45:08 AM »
Let me know if it is working or not. I am not sure...

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2013, 09:36:08 PM »
Hey Dan,

Just got this more in depth e mail from Ron. Any thoughts?

Thanks

John

"At this point, the editor won't work with it because it doesn't have an option for selecting which MIDI port it listens to. It always connects to the Mastermind GT and not any other port.


Even so, fixing that still won't be enough. LoopBe can only connect application to application, not application to physical MIDI device. In the next editor update, my plan is to add MIDI port selection to it, as well as implement a MIDI Thru feature where MIDI data sent from the GT to the editor is sent back out of the editor to another MIDI port (physical or virtual). This should allow the Mastermind GT data to go into the editor, come back out of the editor, into LoopBe, and from LoopBe into your other apps. Let's hope it works!"


--
Ron Menelli
RJM Music Technology, Inc.
email: ron@rjmmusic.com  web: www.rjmmusic.com

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2013, 09:43:16 PM »
He is right. So you have to wait for his update.
Why do you need the editor to be always running on the PC?

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2013, 12:42:01 AM »
Hey Dan

Ron said:

"At the moment, you don't need the editor to be running. With the planned change, it would be missing connection between the GT's physical MIDI port and LoopBe - some program needs to be there to pass MIDI messages from GT to LoopBe. It doesn't have to be the editor, but you'd need to find another program that performs the same type of MIDI Thru function."

"I'm not sure - I have a bunch of work to do on GT firmware 1.3 first. I figure it'll be about two weeks or so."

Thanks,

John


Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2013, 11:08:41 PM »
Hey Dan,

The Mastermind GT with the MMGTEditor 9.1 upgrade has solved the problem using the LoopBe1 program. This is the letter that I just sent to Ron Minelli, the developer of the Mastermind GT at www.RJMmusic.com.

The vArranger and Triple Play can now be completely controlled with the Mastermind GT Midi Foot Controller. And, I think with out having to touch the computer while playing live with the SD2, etc.

Hi Ron,

LoopBe1 is showing in both the vArranger and the Triple Play in the same location where the Mastermind used to be. I don't see LoopBe1 in the editor.

Had difficulty running the 9.1 Editor, but then saw your email to run editor through Windows START. Then it loaded. The Editor didn't connect with the Mastermind at first, and I had to experiment a lot by unplugging the Mastermind, then unplugging the USB, etc. And finally it connected.

I was able to control the Triple Play HOLD functions using the single TRIPLE PLAY HOLD button you had set up. In each guitar presets, I can program the patch to HOLD, SUSTAIN etc.; then control that function with the Mastermind HOLD button. If I set the guitar patch up for a HOLD. Then I play a chord on the guitar and immediately after pressing the Triple Play Hold button once and the color changes to black lettering, and can then take my foot off the Mastermind and that chord will endlessly sustain while I solo over that chord. To go to another chord I press the HOLD button and the color changes back to purple and the next chord I play on the guitar and press the HOLD again and the procedure is repeated. This might seem unimportant to you, but this is huge to me. It opens up a lot of doors to explore.

The LOOP from Triple Play is pathetic, and I will probably never use its feature. But it's accessible now with the GT.

The 6 GT guitar presets all function to control the Triple Play.

Then I loaded the vArranger and the GT showed the LoopBe1 in the MIDI IN 3 position.

Before, the dreaded yellow conflict warning would always show when I would exit out of the MIDI window of the vArranger. And the GT wouldn't recognize the vArranger. But, now with the 9.1, I didn't see any conflicts, no yellow warnings.

I can switch back and forth between the vArranger screen and the Triple Play screen seamlessly with no apparent conflicts.  I can control the Triple Play while playing live in the vArranger screen. And vice versa.

The vArranger shows no conflicts like before. The LoopBe1 seems  to have been the piece of the puzzle you were looking for.

I noticed in the Editor that the Triple Play was connected to the GT via USB, and the vArranger was connected via MIDI. (even though there's no physical midi cable from the GT for the vArranger.) I think that was in the Devices window.     

So Ron, in my humble opinion, congratulations are in order. I've only been playing with it for a couple of hours, and found no problems. Nice work.

Thank you,

John Graham

On Sep 7, 2013, at 1:01 PM, Ron Menelli wrote:

Hi John,

I just wanted to check in and see if the new editor and LoopBe are working with your programs. Are you now able to run all of your programs at once?


--
Ron Menelli
RJM Music Technology, Inc.


Offline Dan

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 11:17:52 AM »
Good news, if it's working good for you !

Offline jbg31792

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 04:19:44 AM »
Hey Dan,

Now I can say bon jour vArranger2, TriplePlay, & Mastermind GT, and slowly say good bye to the MidJay Plus, K8 and the 6 and 13 switch pedals, and the drum throne.

I really look forward to learning how to use the your remarkable vArranger2 and controlling it with just the GT. 

John

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Re: vARRANGER2 with Fishman's TRIPLE PLAY wireless midi guitar convertor
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2013, 08:40:06 AM »
Ok so try to do what you want to do, and tell me when you have questions

 

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