Changing the Bass Sound

[paulus1971]

Hi Dan,

I tried to change the bass sound with sounds other than GM sounds, but the new sound always sounds 1 octave lower than it should be.

Then, i tried to edit a bass sound, and make it 1 octave higher. When i use this edited bass sound, it still sounds 1 octave lower than it should be.

Could you help me with this please?

Thank you

[Dan]

What synth module gives you this problem ?

[paulus1971]

Hi Dan,

I'm now not using any synth module. I'm back to my MOXF, only using yamaha MOXF as my sound module.

Thank you

[Dan]

If you play the GM bass sound, and the other bass sound. Are they in the same octave? Is it a thing you can edit on the XF?

[paulus1971]

Hi Dan,

My GM bass sounds and other banks bass sounds (not GM) if played directly on my MOXF are exactly in the same octave range.

But, if i use vArranger, strangely whenever i change the GM bass sound with MOXF preset bass sound  (not GM), the octave will always become 1 octave lower the the original style's bass sound.

I have already edited some MOXF bass sounds by shifting up the pitch 1 octave higher (not GM), and saved them in MOXF User Bank Sound (not GM), then i use those bass sounds with vArranger, same thing happens. The bass sound is still 1 octave lower than the original style's bass sound.

If i change the style's original bass sound with different GM bass sound, this problem doesn't occur. The bass sound plays perfectly. So, this problem only occurs when i use bass sounds other than GM sounds. No matter how i edited the bass sounds, the result is still the same, 1 octave lower then it should be.

Could you help me with this please?

Thank you

[Dan]

It is strange. Can you reproduce the problem if you are playing for example a right1 gm bass sound, or your non gm bass sound, if they are in the same octave?
Is it only with one style?
Is it only with one chord? (Em...)
Can you reproduce this with cubase?

[paulus1971]

I have already tried 2 different scenarios just now :

1. Scenario 1......Both GM Finger Bass sounds :
    a. Right 1 = Finger Bass (i use GM sound directly)
    b. Right 2 = Finger Bass (i use User Bank. But the sound is originally GM sound that i edited and saved it in User Bank)
    RESULT : Both Right 1 and Right 2 sound the same, there is no difference in octave

2. Scenario 2.....Using GM Finger Bass sound and MOXF Preset Bass sound (not GM) :
    a. Right 1 = Finger Bass (i use GM sound directly)
    b. Right 2 = Mid Range Finger Bass (i use User Bank. But the sound is originally MOXF Preset sound, not GM sound,  that i shifted 1 octave
        higher and saved it in User Bank)
    RESULT : Right 1 (GM sound) produces sound that is 1 octave higher than Right 2 (Mid Range Finger Bass)

This strange thing happens not only at one particular chord or style. So, whenever i change the bass sound with bass sound that is not GM original sound, this strange thing happens.

I also tried to use other sounds, like piano, violin, etc....i tried both GM and MOXF Preset sounds, they don't have any problem with octave at all. Only bass sound has problem with octave.

Sorry, i didn't quite understand what you mean with "Can you reproduce this with cubase?". Do you want me to record my playing with Cubase?

Thank you

[paulus1971]

The problem is from the MOXF,

I've just tried to play GM midi file in Cubase using MOXF as a sound module. When i change the bass sound with MOXF Preset Bass sound (other than GM bass sounds), the bass plays 1 octave lower.

So, the problem is NOTHING TO DO WITH vArranger. I'm pretty sure Yamaha MOTIF will experience the same problem.

Do you have any idea what  i should do with this Dan?

Thank you for your help

[Dan]

This page talk about your problem : http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/451859/
Not sure if they say a solution.

It's strange... To my ear, If you can save a User sound with a transpose +/- 12, it should work...

[paulus1971]

Thank you for your pointer and quick response Dan.

I'm now trying to find out the answer in motifator forum. I hope someone there would be able to solve the "mistery".


Thanks again

[paulus1971]

Hi Dan,

I'm thinking of buying a touchscreen laptop, my questions are :
1. Can vArranger2 run in Windows 8?
2. With touchscreen laptop, is it easy to slide volume controls?
3. What is the minimum recommended screen size? (to be able to 'press' the rhythm, intro buttons, etc)

thank you Dan.

[Dan]

1. Yes
2. If the screen is big enough, Yes
3. Any screen size will work. I have tried 11", 12", 15.6".  The bigger, the better. I have for now good eyes , and was able to adapt myself to small screens. But people, general like bigger screens.
I have now this model, and it is AMAZING :
http://www.rueducommerce.fr/Ordinateurs/Ordinateur-Portable/Ordinateur-Portable-Grand-Public/ACER/4911083-Aspire-R7-572G-74508G25ass-Ordinateur-Portable-15-6-Full-HD-convertible-en-tablette-tactile-Intel-Core-i7-4500U-1-8-GHz-SSD-256-Go-RAM-8-Go-NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-750M-Windows-8-1.htm#moid:MO-9A48FM27323063

[paulus1971]

Thank you for the information and very quick reply Dan.

I have some more questions :
1. If i use Korg nano Kontrol, how many "thing" or "function" I can control?
2. if i use Computer keyboard, i can control up to 12 function right?
3. Can I kontrol the Right Hand Volume using PC?
4. Can i control Right Hand Volume using Korg Nano Kontrol?
5. If i use Korg Nano Kontrol and Midi Pedal, how many function can i control?

Thank you Dan

[Dan]

1. Use Korg nanokontrol 2 - Look at the OPTIONS/CONTROLLERS screen, to see all the function that can be controlled.
2. You can control every function with every key of your pc keyboard
3. Yes, with 2 keys for UP and DOWN
4. Yes, better
5. All

[paulus1971]

That's really great Dan!

I thought we could only control up to 12 functions. I didn't know that we could control just about anything, just tried today after you answered my question to control many...many....things with my computer keyboard.

Thank you for your help Dan!

[Dan]

It seems that you start enjoying vArranger

[paulus1971]

Just thinking, do you think i can use my current laptop (not touchscreen), with my galaxy tab using Airdisplay to control vArranger running in my laptop?
Coz if this is possilble, i don't have to spend too much money on buying a new touchscreen laptop.

Thank you

[Dan]

Yes, there is Air Display or splashtop app. You can try their free demo version, to test it, and see if it does not take too much CPU

[paulus1971]

Hi Dan, thank you for the very quick response

I've tried to use Splashtop, no problem with CPU at all. But there is a slight delay between the Tab and my PC, though it doesn't really affect vArranger performance at all, but still to me it feels a bit awkward. I think the best option will be using a touchscreen laptop.

Another thing, i'm having a problem editing the styles. This is what happened :
1. I muted ACCOMP 3 track, cause that track with MOXF sounds a bit weird
2. I then saved the Song with all options ticked
3. Whenever i move/play other styles, the ACCOMP 3 track will always be muted
4. This thing also happens to other tracks, PERC track, etc.

Can you help me with this, please

[Dan]

For now, it's better to put the track's volume at 0 and save song than muting a track.

Mutes are not yet saved

[paulus1971]

Ok Dan, thank you. I have few questions :

1. if i use Roland Integra 7, do you think it will be able to play Yamaha Styles, and Roland Styles smoothly?
2. is GM2 chord transition better than XG? Because integra 7 has GM2 mode, it doesn't have GS mode
3. for live gig, do you think it is better if i use hardware modules (like integra 7, moxf) of software?
4. which one is more reliable?

thank you Dan

[Dan]

Hello Paulus,

I had an Integra 7 for few days, and did a post for that : http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php?topic=887.0
Basically, to get the best sound of it, you need to assign sounds for every track.
You can use the GM2 mode, so it will sound almost good for many styles, but you are also limited to only GM2 sounds.
The best result was with the GS mode of vArranger, (even if Integra 7 is not a GS synth) but you had to assign sounds of tracks.
Less work to do with Roland styles than Yamaha styles.

When you select the best piano, drums, bass, stereo guitars etc.... you are sometimes out of polyphony !

Integra 7 should be able to use the smooth transition algorithm of vArranger, as most of Roland and Yamaha synths.

Software VS Hardware is a never ending question, but I personally tend to go from 100% hardware to the vArranger software synth with selected soundfonts.

I like the fact that you just need a computer and a usb keyboard to gig, and no need a long setup time with many parts.

Maybe you can get enough good results with your MOXF

[paulus1971]

Thank you for the info and quick response Dan,

If integra 7 easily runs out of polyphony then i don't think it is a good option for me.

Actually, what makes me not happy with MOXF is the Drum sounds, and the Bass sounds. They are not bad, but just not 'strong' enough.

I have few more questions Dan :
1. Since you have a motif, in your experience, which one sounds better with vArranger : Motif or Integra?
2. If i only want drum sound and bass sound, can you give me suggestion any good soundfont?
3. Studio Drummer by NI sounds really good to me (better than Addictive Drum and EZDrummer), but many people in some forums complaining about it's CPU consumption, to heavy for laptop i think. What do you think about this?
4. I also really like Trillian Bass VST by Spectrasonic. But again, i am afraid if i run these 2 VSTs (Studio Drummer and Trillian), then i would need laptop with RAM bigger than 16 GB. is this true?
5. Have you ever tried using Cantabile (as Agaton suggested) with something like Studio Drummer?

Thank you

[Dan]

1.I don't have a Motif, I had an Integra for 1 week. Very different sounds. I think you should stay with your Yamaha MOXF

2.If you only need Drum and Bass, I think the SoundFont and VST route is for you.
I am not an expert on trying every VST or SF2, so I let other people to answer this.
I personally started a SAMPLING project, and will probably release some good quality sounds.

3. There is tons of Drums VST.... I don't know NI Studio Drummer. Anyone?

4. What is your actual computer? Ram, CPU, HD?

5. vArranger comes with a VST host, you don't need Cantabile anymore.