Author Topic: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL  (Read 1727 times)

Offline jbg31792

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Does the vArranger2 only respond on MIDI channel 1, or can it respond on MIDI channel 2?

The Triple Play only responds on MIDI channel 1, and that can't be changed according to Fishman.
 
The buttons on my midi foot controller that are designated to work with the vArranger2 are currently set to SEND on channel 1. Because they're set to SEND on channel 1 and because the Triple Play receives on channel 1, those buttons are incorrectly triggering the Triple Play and maybe causing a midi error conflict with the vArranger2.

I've changed the Triple Play and vArranger settings in my midi foot controller to transmit on channel 1 for the Triple Play and channel 2 for the vArranger2. So that the Triple Play now receives midi IN on channel 1, and the vArranger2 now receives midi IN on channel 2. (I hope that I've said that right)

What settings would you recommend in the vArranger Port Select if the the foot controller is transmitting on Midi channel 2 for the vArranger2, and the vArranger is supposed to be receiving and responding on MIDI channel 2.
And the foot controller is transmitting on MIDI channel 1 for the Triple Play, and the Triple Play is designed by Fishman to respond only to MIDI channel 1.
       
I've attached a diagram of the vArranger Midi Ports Select screen.

Any suggestions Dan, or Terry?

Thanks,

John



Offline 4partmusic

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 12:30:45 AM »
I am out of town so I don't have my set up with me.  The times I have gotten my midi buddy to work I had the Triple Play set on Midi 1 like you do.  Midibuddy on channel 1 and Ketron SD4 set as the out because I am not using an interface.   My actual physical inputs are:
Triple Play - Wireless USB
Midi Buddy- USB to midi
SD4 USB-USB

All coming from my laptop.   I am trying to figure out what purpose the UMG is serving for you?  Are you driving soft synths or something?

Thanks,

Terry

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 02:32:56 AM »
I'm using the SD2 which doesn't have a usb out, only a midi in and thru.

Midi IN SD2 to Midi out 1 UM-2G USB interface. I wish the SD2 had a USB, I would definitely try using it and eliminate having the USB interface. Maybe when Dan de-bugs the SD1000, it has a USB, and the price is affordable!!!

Terry, how do you have your vARRANGER MIDI PORTS SELECT set up?

Also, if you have the Triple Play responding on MIDI channel 1 and the MidiBuddy transmitting on MIDI channel 1, do you have the vArranger2 set to respond to MIDI channel 2, and MidiBuddy transmitting on MIDI channel 2?

I'm just wondering if the vArranger2 will respond to MIDI channel 2?

On the Mastermind GT midi pedal, I'm going USB to USB. The GT has Midi capability, but I was instructed to use the USB instead of the Midi.

How is the MidiBuddy doing with the Triple Play LOOP, HOLD, ALTERNATE AND SUSTAIN functions? Especially the LOOP feature.

When I load the Triple Play by itself, without loading the vArranger2, the GT controls everything that I've assigned to the GT: the 6 USER guitar presets, and all Triple Play pedal functions work fine. When I assign a LOOP pedal function to a guitar preset and press the GT foot switch one time, the red light starts flashing in the LOOPER and recording starts. As soon as I release the LOOP switch a solid green light replaces the red flashing light-but I can still continue to record. Only when I press the foot switch a second time the red light flashes again and playback starts. When pedal is released flashing red is replaced with a solid green light. Playback will continue with green light showing. Pressing a third time stops the playback and releasing pedal turns green again. After that, I think there's a bug which I've reported and Fishman said they're working on fixing an unpredictable time delay before making a new recording is possible.

But when I load the vArranger2 after I've loaded the Triple Play, with vArranger set to MIDI channel 2 on the GT, I get the dreaded MIDI LOCK ERROR MESSAGE on the vArranger2. Also, the GT stops working with both the vArranger and the Triple Play.

Sorry for all the long winded questions.

Thanks,

John
   

 

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 06:22:09 AM »
1) You don't need to check the box SEND MIDI CLOCK, because it sends many midi messages that you don't need.

2) You have to set your guitar to send in the channel 1

3) Your GT can send on any channel

4) Be sure that there is no other software who use the guitar or the GT MIDI or the SD2.  To be sure you can unplugg, and replug the USB cables 10 seconds before running vArranger.

Let me know ...

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 09:40:12 AM »
2. "you have to set your guitar to send in the channel 1" 
(I don't understand)

3. "Your GT can send on any channel"
I know the GT can send on any channel, but when the GT is sending on MIDI channel 2 can the vArranger respond on MIDI channel 2?
The GT used to trigger the vArranger2 when I had the vArranger set to MIDI channel 1 in the GT DEVICE settings.
But, because the Triple Play only responds on MIDI channel 1, I had to change vArranger to MIDI channel 2 and the Triple Play to MIDI channel 1. Now the GT will not trigger the vArranger, and this makes me question if the vArranger can respond on MIDI channel 2.

The GT will trigger the Triple Play when the vArranger is not loaded. When I load the vArranger and the Triple Play, the GT stops triggering both the Triple Play and the vArranger.

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 10:53:13 AM »
2. When the guitar sends midi notes to vArranger, make sure it sends it on the midi channel 1.
By the way, if you hear some sound, or see the vumeters moving when you play the guitar, it's ok, the guitar sends on channel 1.

3. Most of midi drivers are not MULTI CLIENTS.  that means that one midi port can only be used by ONE program at a time.
You are trying to use the same midi port with 2 programs TOGETHER.
Maybe it's not possible. You have to close one of the 2 programs

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 11:33:16 PM »
2. "When the guitar sends midi notes to vArranger, make sure it sends on midi channel 1"
(Is that because the vArranger can only receive midi notes on midi channel 1?)

Can the vArranger receive midi notes on midi channel 2?

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 06:31:21 AM »
For the midi in 1, use the midi channel 1.

For the midi channel 2, you can use any channels

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 05:02:31 PM »
In the Mastermind Editor under DEVICES, SETTINGS, NAME, MIDI. The name is shown as vArranger, and there's a box underneath the name labeled MIDI with a choice of 1-16 numbers.

Which MIDI number do you recommend me to enter for the vArranger?

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 05:11:46 PM »
Why not 2

I am not sure if this is the midi channel.

You can see it when your in the OPTIONS/CONTROLLERS screen.
You press the pedal, and see the midi messages coming in the screen

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 05:29:19 AM »
Yes Dan, the vArranger did accept midi channel 2 from the GT.

Now the GT is transmitting to the Triple Play on midi channel 1, and transmitting to the vArranger on midi channel 2. And the vArranger is receiving on midi channel 2, and the Triple Play is receiving on midi channel 1.

I have 12 vArranger controllers assigned to the GT on midi channel 2, all working great.

But I still don't have full control of the vArranger and the Triple Play with the GT, when both programs are running at the same time. It's a lot better, now that both the Triple Play and the vArranger aren't both receiving midi notes on midi channel 1.

Any more good ideas? Now we're getting a lot closer to solving this.

Thanks

John

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 07:09:00 AM »
When you press a pedal, it sends a midi message to both program at the same time?  If yes, this mean that your driver is multi client. (Most midi drivers aren't)

But...  I don't understand what you want to do.

Imagine one pedal is doing START/STOP in vArranger. But it does soemthing else on your Triple Play?  At the same time?

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 06:21:43 PM »
"this means that your driver is multi client"
(WHICH DRIVER ARE YOU REFERRING TO?)

BEFORE, when both programs were receiving midi notes on the same midi channel from the GT, and I would press a pedal on the GT, it WOULD send a midi message to both PROGRAMS at the same time.

But NOW that the vArranger is receiving midi notes on midi channel 2, and Triple Play is receiving midi notes on midi channel 1, the GT does NOT send a midi message to both programs at the same time.

What I want to do is 1. On the Triple Play: Be able to trigger the one pedal HOLD function on the Triple Play, which includes the LOOPER, HOLD, ALTERNATE, SUSTAIN, and also be able to Trigger the USER presets for the guitar patches.

This means that one pedal on the GT I've labeled TRIPLE PLAY HOLD. And when I press that switch, it controls either the LOOPER, HOLD, SUSTAIN, OR ALTERNATE - depending on how I've programed each USER guitar patch in the Triple Play.

For example, I might have assigned the LOOPER for guitar patch #5, and the HOLD for guitar patch #2. Then when I call up guitar patch #5 on the Triple Play, the GT TRIPLE PLAY HOLD switch will control the LOOPER. If I call up guitar patch #1, which has the HOLD function chosen, the GT TRIPLE PLAY HOLD switch will control the TRIPLE PLAY HOLD function.   

And 2. Be able to control as many vArranger functions that I want to on the Mastermind GT (right now I have only 12 CC functions active, all flawlessly receiving midi notes on midi channel 2).

Because the vArranger is receiving midi notes on midi channel 2, now I am able to do that without having to worry that any GT switch assigned to a vArranger function will also trigger a Triple Play function.

Please understand that I've only experimented with this for one day.

When I load the vArranger first, without running the Triple Play, but pair the Triple Play Controller with the Dongle, I have midi control with my guitar over the vArranger chords and styles. And the GT is controlling the vArranger. The vArranger sounds are also all available for my guitar when playing the chords.

Then, when I load the Triple Play, the Triple Guitar rig 5 and the SYNTH sounds are heard, plus the vArranger sounds. I can mute the vArranger sounds, and then I only hear the Triple Play sounds when I play the chords that control the STYLES.

BUT THE ONLY THING THAT I CAN'T DO IS CONTROL THE TRIPLE PLAY WITH THE GT FOOT CONTROLLER.
This means that I can't control changing the GUITAR PATCHES with the GT, and don't have access to the LOOPER, HOLD, ALTERNATE and SUSTAIN. (Although, on the Triple Play Controller on the guitar, I can change the patches, but not the HOLD functions)

If I run the Triple Play by itself, the GT controls all of the Triple Play functions.

If I start experimenting I get the MIDI IN OPEN UNABLE TO LOCK MEMORY error showing on the vArranger.

Thanks,

John   
   

 

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 07:34:01 PM »
Hi Dan

Here's an mail from Ron, developer of the GT Mastermind.

Thanks,

John

Hi John,

I think that we're running into the problem that the Fishman people mentioned - apparently you can't neccesarily have two programs connected to the same MIDI port. The error message you're getting seems to confirm this,

I think there are programs designed to go in between the actual MIDI port and the programs to allow this to work - kind of like a virtual "Y" cable. I'm doing some searching and hope to find a program for you soon. I'll let you know! If you'd like to look, I'm doing searches for things like for "MIDI multi-client driver" and "MIDI routing program"

--
Ron Menelli
RJM Music Technology, Inc.
email: ron@rjmmusic.com  web: www.rjmmusic.com

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 07:39:40 PM »
Dan, this is an e mail from Dereck at Fishman that sheds a little more light on the issue.

Hi John,

I think the problem is that Windows can only send midi data to a single program at a time. It sounds like when you're trying to use both, it is seeing 2 midi programs and it is only sending data to the Triple Play.

Thanks, Derek

Derek Alves  |  Customer Support Representative Fishman Acoustic Amplification dalves@fishman.com  |  www.fishman.com

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2013, 03:54:38 AM »
Yes, someone here (kenny) is using a software to split midi connections

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2013, 06:47:30 PM »
Dan,

What is the name of the software that Kenny is using to split connections? Is there any postings by Kenny explaining his set up?

This is Ron's e mail to me after I asked him if he thought the M4UXT might work:

thanks,

John

That would be great if you're plugging more than one controller into your PC, but wouldn't be the best solution for the problem we're having. I guess you could connect a standard MIDI cable from the Mastermind GT's MIDI output to that MIDI interface, then have the Triple Play commands go over the standard MIDI port and the vArranger commands go over the USB cable. But, that's a bit convoluted.

I'm looking at these programs:

http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software.html

rtpMIDI, despite the description, looks the most promising. I'm going to try to play with it this weekend and see if it will do what you need.

-Ron

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2013, 07:48:15 PM »
I think it is  http://www.midiox.com/

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2013, 03:59:07 AM »
Dan,

Is this a conflict:

When I press HOLD (GT switch #12), the vArranger Midi Monitor shows:

(on pressing the GT pedal) - midi IN port=Mastermind GT, midi type=CC, channel 2, control#=91, value=127
(on releasing the GT pedal) - midi IN port=Mastermind GT, midi type=CC, channel 2, control#=91,  value=0

On main Controllers window on vArranger, HOLD in TRANSPORT SECTION shows:

Number=88, function=HOLD, Midi IN port=3, midi type=controller, Midi Channel=1, midi CC #=66

In the Midi Monitor the vArranger is showing the HOLD (GT switch #12) to be receiving on midi channel 2, and the CC# is 91.

On the main CONTROLLERS screen in vArranger under TRANSPORT functions, the HOLD (GT switch #12) shows to be receiving on midi channel 1, and the CC# is 66.

Also, HOW CAN I DELETE A CONTROL CHANGE ASSIGNMENT THAT I'VE ALREADY MADE IN VARRANGER, AND ASSIGN THAT FOOT CONTROLLER PEDAL TO A DIFFERENT CONTROL CHANGE FUNCTION?

THANKS,

JOHN

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2013, 06:19:48 AM »
Clic again on the line and press again your pedal.

This will assign the function to the new midi message.

You can also remove it completely by clicking on NO MIDI IN CONTROL in the right part of the screen

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2013, 09:13:48 PM »
Dan,

Is the vArranger MIDI MONITOR supposed to display the same Midi IN Channel number, and the same Control Change number, that is displayed UNDER OPTIONS in the main CONTROLLERS screen?

For example: If the MIDI MONITOR shows the Control Change Number 91 is being received on Midi Channel 2,
Should the CONTROLLERS window also show that Control Change Number 91 is being received on Midi Channel 2?

Thank you,

John 

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2013, 09:37:09 PM »
In the MIDI MONITOR, you see every incoming midi messages.

In the Controllers window, you see the message who will trigger the function

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 09:57:01 PM »
Dan,

For the same button press on the GT, Is it normal for me to see Midi IN on Channel 1, and Control Change Number 66 in the Main Controllers window; And, at the same time, see Midi IN on Channel 2, and Control Change Number 91 in the Midi Monitor window?

PS I just called CMC in New York 1-800 554 5982 regarding the SD1000. They said they are receiving shipment in 10 days and would ship out in two weeks.

Price $599.00
Let me know when you're accepting orders?

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 10:02:20 PM »
No it's not normal.
Clic again on the function line, and press again the pedal, and see if this matches.
If not, send me a picture screen.

ps : The SD1000 in france is USD 571 (incl tax)

Offline jbg31792

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2013, 11:03:59 PM »
Dan,

Using the GT, is there a way to MUTE and UN-MUTE the RIGHT 1, RIGHT 2, AND 2ND VOICE on the vArranger Mixer?

In the vArranger CONTROLLERS, is there any kind of chord  HOLD or SUSTAIN, available for the GT? So that the last chord played on the guitar will HOLD/SUSTAIN when the GT pedal is pressed, while the guitar solos with single notes around that chord?

In the vArranger CONTROLLERS screen, the Midi IN Channel number and the Control Change number on the function line, is different than what is showing in the Midi Monitor for the same button press on the GT.

Please explain how to send you a screen shot of the CONTROLLERS and MIDI MONITOR of the vArranger.

Thanks,

John

Offline Dan

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Re: PROBLEMS CONFIGURING VARRANGER, TRIPLE PLAY, AND MIDI FOOT PEDAL
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2013, 07:50:20 AM »
For now
- You can mute / unmute the 2ND VOICE only
- No way of disable the chord recognition with a pedal
- To print screen, if you have a PC keyboard, there is a PRINT SCREEN key. If you have a mac keyboard, the key is fn + Shift + Option +  F11 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5636?viewlocale=en_US
Then go on paint and paste (ctrl V)
Then save the image, and send it

 

advice-unchristian